I meant to complete the statement that if we die having not accepted Him and repented of whatever sins they are involved in and I had my share, we will not enter Heaven.
Have you heard of dictionaries?
This is an atheist debate forum, and you are eschewing debate in order to preach your beliefs, that is bound to piss people off.
But you claimed we are “wrong” and because we’re “wrong” we’re going to be tortured for eternity? You never answered, when I asked what you thought we are wrong about?
If you want to be respectful here, then take care not to preach at people, and engage honestly and fully in debate, rather than ignoring valid criticisms of your arguments and claims. If you don’t understand something ask for clarification or research what it means, don’t just roll on to your next raft of claims, again this is not a respectful or honest way to debate.
I don’t believe in unevidenced supernatural curses like “sin”, so why would I need a deity that is unsupported by any objective evidence, to forgive something I don’t believe exists?
You have not demonstrated any objective evidence a deity exists or is even possible, so why would I believe any claims about any deity?
Homosexualty is part of who a person is, and it harms no one, unlike stealing and murder, to lump those three things together is repugnant, as indeed it is to ask someone not be themselves, based on the morals of bronze age patriarchal Bedouins from an unevidenced archaic superstition. It’s pernicious and cruel, and I want no part of that.
FYI that claim is about as disrespectful as I can imagine, homophobia is just as harmful and disrespectful as racism.
Another circle reasoning fallacy.
“Circular reasoning is a logical fallacy that occurs when an argument’s conclusion is used as evidence to support itself. It’s a type of informal fallacy that’s characterized by a lack of substance and independent evidence.”
3 Likes
Well, perhaps you should pause and think about others before you tell them they will be tortured forever in your hell for not thinking like you…cuz that’s pretty bitter.
2 Likes
What makes homosexuality a sin? Is it because it says so in your book? If so, then why do so many christians eat shrimp? Shave their beards? Remain out of town on a Sunday? Castrate their dogs? Are against refuge cities? Borrow money with interest?
6 Likes
Can you say anything ‘factual’ about the reason you believe in your god that a Muslim, Jew, Catholic, JW, Mormon, Calvinist, Bahai, or Hindu, can not say about the reason they believe in their gods?
3 Likes
Because…
- No matter which god you’re talking about (as has been pointed out to you, there are thousands even if you could claim the Christian/Abrahamic god as one), it isn’t a two-horse race.
- There is no more validatable evidence for those gods than any other fairy tale or mythical creature. Scripture is not validatable.
- The introduction of a miraculous god into science would necessarily destroy the latter (in my opinion, it is impossible to believe in such gods and accept the most basic tenets of science).
- As has already been pointed out to you, not knowing something does not act as validation for your alternative.
- Religions have been used to control the masses [probably] since before records began.
- When you look at the beliefs Christians hold in detail, what they actually believe is bat-shit crazy.
There are other minor reasons (mostly my opinion) such as most atheists tending to be more moral than most Christians, taking personal responsibility for life (I’m a product of my parents, my friends, my society and so on but ultimately I think about those things I consider wrong or right and make decisions whether I consider them acceptable) and not abrogated to some fictitious “higher” authority and because religions (while not necessarily the literal cause) have been vectors for war throughout all of human history.
UK Atheist
4 Likes
May I ask then where morality comes from in its most basic form? Surely it didn’t evolve with us humans from millions of years of evolution. Respectfully of course.
1 Like
Also, what about your concepts of justice, love, good and evil? Do they exist and where do they come from?
I am so surprised you should ask this question.
Firstly, Humans are Great Apes, we have a social grouping that enables us to co-operate and survive in a hostile environment. If you look at our close relatives like Bonobos, Chimpanzees and Gorillas you will see the empathy, sympathy, and practical help that we call “moral” developed through evolution to aid in survival of the group.
Other species such as elephants, buffalo, whales and dolphins to name but two, have evolved and been observed to exhibit what we, anthropomorphically would call “moral” behaviors.
The reason for my surprise at your question is, you self identified as a Southern Baptist, an organisation whose morals have evolved over the last century or so. Do you not recall on my first reply when I noted your schismatic sect was against anti slavery, it other words it supported the continuance of slavery and the abomination of segregation (read apartheid).
Please read here for the [incontrovertible facts] surrounding Southern Baptists founding beliefs.
Nowadays people of colour, asians and others are welcomed into the flock. Does that not show that even the reddest of redneck institutions can evolve? And for nearly the same reasons as primitive hominids? In the Southern Baptist case it was political and economic survival…
Maybe cast the beam from your own eye…
3 Likes
My question is this then, as a human with no life eternal after this life, as you believe, why would you hold to any morality at all. Survival of the fittest. Take all you can for yourself, live like there’s no consequence until you die and then it’s over. I can’t fathom humans with an absence of God having any sense of right and wrong which be nothing but destructive to the human race.
I addressed this in other posts, but let’s try again.
Moral behavior is a product of being a social animal. An example that I often use is the Portuguese Man-O-War jellyfish, which is one of the most primitive animals that I know of. They are cnidarians, and the cnidarians have been around for more than 500 million years. There is even evidence that they predate the Cambrian Explosion.
The Man-O-War is actually a colony of several different animals that work collectively. In order to do this, they must follow certian rules, like “don’t attack our offspring,” and “share food.”
These rules are actually primitive approximations of some of the Ten Commandments.
Communual cnidarians that don’t follow these rules died off, so the ones that tend to follow these rules survived.
So, are you telling me that jellyfish worship God? 500 million years ago? Or is it simpler to believe that rules can be hardwired by evolution and that morality is a byproduct of being a social animal?
Why don’t you ask the Southern Baptist Council that? Their 'morality" evolved? Was your godofchoice suddenly not there in 1845 guiding their sense of right and wrong, and then magically appeared much much later when your sub sect dropped the pro-slavery stance?
You are asking me for answers that are apparent just by looking at your own cult’s history.
2 Likes
I don’t think you actually know what this means.
I asked a variation of this earlier but you didn’t answer. Do you get your rules from your bible?
Morality is a fiction, created to try to control the actions of others. When someone appeals to morality, check your wallet as someone is trying to pull a fast one.
2 Likes
Are you running off a script? Only addressing part of an answer? Hoping for a ‘gotcha’? If you are trying that old chestnut, oh dear oh dear, this playtime will end in tears.
May I ask when you’re going to answer the questions that have been put to you?
It’s not a belief, it is the lack of a belief, the idea of an afterlife is unfalsifiable.
To make life more bearable, and because I would not want to cause unnecessary suffering, but of course all animals that have evolved to live in societal groups, must necessarily have evolved morality.
That is not remotely what survival of the fittest means, and just because you are only moral because you fear hell and long for heaven, doesn’t mean I need to be.
That’s because you have been indoctrinated to believe this lie, and even when confronted with facts to the contrary, you remain closed minded. The last part if absurd, why would refraining from pernicious behaviour be a threat to the human race, quite the opposite is clearly true.
Now are you going to debate these issues at all? Or are you just here to preach, and then sulk when your preaching and beliefs are rebuffed?
1 Like
I devoted an entire thread to that very topic. Enjoy reading it.
2 Likes
You understand that we’re animals, right? That other animals demonstrate varying degrees of appreciation of good and bad (morality, if you wish), yes? Morality is not simply a human characteristic … it appears to be a function of higher brain power, yes evolved, and can be seen in many, many other species.
Frankly, they appear to be mostly relative to the beholder. Killing someone is bad, right? But what if you’re killing to prevent that person killing you or someone else? Is it still bad? What about killing for a cause? IMO maybe but it’s a big maybe because often those causes appear to be based on flaky reasoning.
Was Hitler good or evil? Having been to Auschwitz, I’d err towards evil but I’m sure Eva Braun and his dog/s loved him … go figure. Your question clearly assumes love to be good but, if you’re honest with yourself, that’s not always the case … love is not always good, it’s often selfish, perhaps more so than not. Ultimately good and evil are pretty much human invented fictions.
UK Atheist
1 Like
Why? What is wrong with simply being moral just for its own sake?
And who is more moral? The atheist who is moral just for its own sake? Or the theist who is moral out of fear of eternal punishment?
1 Like