Where is the AR server located?

Given the current trends in information-gathering and surveillance by the Trump regime and its puppets (see half-assed sources below[*]), one can no longer rely on US-style freedom of speech. Further, given that the most active members here are quite vocal anti-Trump, I consider it prudent to raise the question as to where the servers for Atheist Republic and the forum are located. If outside the USA and US jurisdiction: Excellent (but where?) If in the USA or within US jurisdiction: Is it wise to keep them there? Perhaps they should be moved to a more safe location information-wise?

[*] Yes, I know that these sources point to articles about information gathering in connection with applications for green cards and/or citizenship. But you know how it is with fascistoid regimes - they take one step at a time to see what they can get away with. Soon it will be total surveillance.

Half-assed sources follow

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This isn’t new behavior. After 9-11, this sort of surveillance ramped up steeply, laws were enacted or relaxed to allow more of it, and most citizens of the U.S. supported it because they were afraid of all the scary brown people from the Middle East. It was called The Patriot Act. It’s still around. For the most part, citizens of the U.S. got complacent, forgot about it, and now it’s biting us in the ass. We are our own worst enemy.

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So I found out which country it is located:

image

So, it is located in the USA :grimacing:

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I’d be happier to see them somewhere else, perhaps Europe. But it becomes a question similar to the one my daughter is asking me: should my family leave the US while we still can?

There’s no one good solid unassailable answer. Other countries are becoming unstable economically and politically as well. The collapse of US influence and trust is realigning the entire planet, sometimes in unpredictable ways.

Personally I use a VPN to access this site. It would be hard to trace. I usually appear to be coming from Finland or Switzerland.

The real vulnerability is not so much content (which, after all, anyone can view if they sign up for an account) as whatever logs the site keeps. Logs of IP traffic is the biggie. I’d review the policies of the server and prune such logs regularly. If you need older data for things like detecting sock puppets, I’d keep THAT outside the US, perhaps on a cheap shared server hosted in Canada or some such. Or an admin located in the US could keep a local copy, encrypted.

If the server is managed by the hosting company you may not have a lot of control over such things though. Policies may be set by the hosting company. For all I know they might even be constrained by lawyer concerns or even actual laws to store such logs for some period of time.

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That’s an interesting question. Do you have any countries that you can actually emigrate to legally on relatively short notice? I have friends in the US that were very unhappy with Bush Jr. Under Bush Jr. 2, they started talking about emigrating. They relaxed somewhat under Obama. They absolutely didn’t like Trump 1, but still didn’t move. Haven’t heard anything from them after Trump 2 came along, so I have no idea what their plans are. I also have friends with dual US/European citizenships (including the kids) that keep their European passports valid, updated, and ready to use on short notice if/when the shit should really hit the fans.

Exactly. It is the traffic analysis and its possible implications I am most worried about. With the potential for collapse in privacy in the US being relatively high these days (ISPs being mandated to share logs and personal information with US authorities), I worry about what the christofascist might use such data for. Will they end up doing mass-roundups of people being critical of Trump - ā€œCrimes against Trumpismā€?

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Just a general comment. I don’t visit AR all that much but I sometimes do (usually after a summary email); it would be be a shame if rapidly escalating US fascism was to prevent me accessing it when I do.

I’m sure there must be some European atheists willing to host it. What about a mirror?

UK Atheist

Ultimately, does it really matter? AR is registered as a Canadian non-profit. Its existence is outside of the jurisdiction of the U.S.
Could the U.S. prevent access to it? I suppose so, however they struggled banning TicTok. If the current U.S. regime goes after AR, then things have devolved enough that denying access to this tiny corner of the interweb is the least of our problems.
Additionally, if they want to go after folks who are posting things they don’t like, they can do that no matter where all these bits and bytes are stored. And really, given the way the internet works, isn’t this data already spread all over anyway?
If they have a goal to get rid of godless heathens, then they are already utilizing the most effective method…the indoctrination of children…by forcing the xtian religion into schools.

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It’s not the content I’m worried about, it’s the metadata (logs, IP addresses, etc.) These can possibly be used to identify people who just want to be left the f… alone. Having a server placed physically within the US means that - with the way things are heading right now - US law enforcement can force the ISP to hand out said metadata, which is not desirable.

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Where should I store this…

to be safe… :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Oi! Oompa Loompa, I am in South Wales… :wink:

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If you are a user who is vulnerable to being exposed as an atheist, you probably shouldn’t use this or any other atheist related site. At least without taking precautions (vpn/etc).

eta: the internet is like sex, there is nothing wrong with participating, but you need to take precautions

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Do you really think that getting the AR metadata is the only, or even a primary way, people in the U.S. government can find out who anyone is?
If, for instance, there is a person who is in (insert country name here) and they are posting on the AR forums and the U.S. government got that person’s IP address, what do you suppose they might do with it? Arrest you? Hurt you in some way?
Really, right now, I’d venture a guess that there are multiple millions of people across the world who are saying negative things on the internet about the trump regime. What the actual fuck can (or would) he do about it?
Personally, I think there are far, far larger and lower hanging fruits to deal with than the metadata of a handful of people on a small forum who are bitching about maga.

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US immigration authorities have shown that they can and will reject people based on negative comments about Trumpian politics. So on the off chance that one would have to go to the US for whatever reason, there is a chance that ICE could use that kind of information to reject someone entry. Just sayin.

Yep, they could. They already use skin color, clothing, languages spoken, tattoos, places of birth, and religion, why not one more? Seems they have plenty of excuses to keep them busier than they can handle right now (since deportation levels are down).

There are no easy answers.

One can hop over into Canada for instance and legally stay there for 6 months without needing a visa (although if you don’t have telework to do, that’s a problem, as you’d need a visa to actually work). You can exit the country at that point and come right back again for another 6 month stint, as I understand it.

My daughter knows [of] people who country-hop like this – digital nomads have done it for years but also people waiting for more permanent arrangements in a particular country.

That’s of course not practical for many. My daughter is a 100% telecommute but a big time zone difference would likely be problematic and she has 5 kids (4 still at home, one at university in the US and should finish up his degree in the coming year). She also has a husband with disabilities. It is hard, and expensive, to keep uprooting everyone.

She is currently thinking in terms of deciding what her personal ā€œred linesā€ are and if those are crossed, off to Canada to see what develops and look into more permanent options. Sort of a ā€œvacationā€ they may or may not return from. She frets about conscription for her oldest, indoctrination for the younger, losing various special ed options they need, etc.

She’s looking at Portugal because it has relatively liberal visa options. She’s very pragmatic and figures language would only be a speed bump to the young kids.

But as I pointed out, she also lacks a crystal ball. They might go through all the upheaval to become Portuguese only to find that 10 years hence America is rebuilding and Europe is in ruins, for all we know. Who knows where the wars and climate disasters will fall the hardest and fastest … or what democracies elsewhere will fall?

It’s easier for me to rationalize like that exactly because I DON’T have children (apart from my 32 y.o. disabled stepson) so the devil I know, bad as it is, seems not so bad as the ones I don’t know.

When Shitler was elected last November we went through a brief spasm of seriously looking into moving up around Ottawa ourselves … it’s an easy drive from where we are. But even though health care is mostly better in Canada, we might have a hard and disruptive time reproducing the supports we’ve spent years building for our son here in the States. And now the US may well outright ASSAULT Canada, and even if it doesn’t, the tariff war won’t be easy on them, any more than it will be on us.

Finally the general ā€œugly Americanā€ resentment is rapidly mutating into a ā€œfuck America and Americansā€ sentiment … the US may be single-handedly responsible for the collapse or severe impairment of civil society worldwide and people will want a throat to choke. IDK that I’d want to be a true refugee in some strange land where everyone thinks or suspects I’m MAGA or something. Kind of like how some Europeans are said to think that entertainments like old Cowboy movies or Baywatch or Untouchables episodes represent any true aspect of life in the US (years ago, an acquaintance of mine had someone in Spain ask him where he lived and when he said Chicago, they wondered if that wasn’t a dangerous place … they had visions of gangsters and machine guns).

Anyway sure if we become malnourished and the power is off more than on we might grab our passports (we renewed them all back in November while the State Department was still functioning) and try to get out. But that would be a Hail Mary pass that could easily take us ā€œout of the frying pan and into the fireā€. Other than that, we are staying put. My daughter has her own calculus and contingency plans, as we all must.

I don’t disagree, exactly, but things have deteriorated so quickly that anything seems possible now.

It’s very hard to weigh the clearly malignant intent of the real backers of the regime (oligarchs, tech bros, Christian Nationalists, corporations, assorted extermists) over against their inexperience, naivete, ineptitude, arrogance and incompetence, over against opportunistic outside forces brooding behind it all (Russia, China, etc) vs other chaotic influences (climate change, resource exhaustion, etc). Over against maybe, one would hope, a surprising popular protest movement or the development of a meaningful opposition party that somehow manages to prevail in our deteriorating election apparatus.

If AR is incorporated in Canada it should not be hard to have its servers there or elsewhere in the UK, and/or, to not retain IP logs or to archive them someplace outside the reach of the US. The devil is in the details of course.

Apart from security issues, it’d be nice to have a mirror site or three in other parts of the world – for stability. Of course, this is probably running on a shoestring with volunteers, and thus easier said than done. I don’t know much about such things myself (I’m a software dev / architect, not a sysadmin) but I know enough to suspect the PITA it would be, and I know it would cost, not a lot of $, but a meaningful amount probably to AR.

I’ve given this subject some more thought. It occurs to me that the most damaging things maga has done include a devastating erosion of trust, near eradication of hope, and the instillation of paralyzing fear.

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Yes. That’s Authoritarian Regime 101.

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