You claim to know the qualities of this supposed god. I have a question since you pose as one who knows the qualities of this god.
Why do innocent children die of cancer?
We have been over this before. If there is such a thing as âevilâ, there must be a god. In order for you to prove this âevilâ, first you must prove there is a god. You are attempting to sway us into accepting âevilâ without any proof of a god, then using the âevilâ example as proof of your god.
First: prove there is a god. Only when that is established can we move onto âevilâ.
I see a lot of circular reasoning.
YOU need a dictionary or start to google definitions of words.
irrational not logical or reasonable
I do not
THIS standard would lead me to all sorts of mistruths and gullible. I assume nothing.
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Some what of an understatement. If the one god exists and is the monster of the Torah, I can say without fear of contradiction, Iâm fucked.
The good news is that so far, no one in recorded history has managed to demonstrate the existence of any god. Nor indeed any super-natural beings or realm outside and apart from the material.
So far youâve provided a lot of claims about your beliefs. You have not shown that you have grasped the difference between a claim and empirical evidence.
Gods have so far never been argued into or out of existence. If that was the case there would be either very few atheist or far fewer theists.
This is an atheist debate forum. When you produce unfounded claims you will be challenged.
I really donât care about your personal superstitions, which is all you have presented.
Iâm an agnostic atheist. That means I do not believe in god(s) due to lack of empirical evidence. However, Iâm unable to claim to know for the same reason.
Iâm a materialist, again for the same reason. I am not being bloody minded, atheism has never be a choice for me. It is the result of a long and sometimes painful journey which lasted over 20 years. To be able to believe in gods, I need empirical evidence and am unable to accept anything less.
I donât mean to be unkind, but your posts have become tedious and predictable. So please piss or get off the pot .
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Fuck right off, assumptions are not evidence.
You claimed that you can demonstrate objective evidence for a deity.
Youâre a liar, why should anyone bother reading the posts of a liar.
Youâre a liar then, as you claimed you could.
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Then you liedâŚ
That was 130 posts ago.
Did you really think you could run and hide for a bit and weâd forget?
Over 200 posts and all youâve got to offer is for us to assume your vapid superstition is true.
.
LiarâŚ
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He struck me as thoroughly dishonest from his first post, and I think itâs to all our credit that we held off until he proved unequivocally how dishonest his vapid spiel is.
I have noticed many times, and commented each time, that is a very bad sign when someone opens their dialogue by contradicting the dictionary.
If when then questioned, they donât offer an honest explanation, but instead double down on their sophistry, especially after their errancy has been demonstrated and explained, then I have to conclude it is deliberate mendacity on their part.
As has proved to be the case here.
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You have no physical evidence supporting your claims. Admit it. Just your word. You act as though your opinion is factual when it isnât. Youâre going to have try harder than just writing down several paragraphs on a forum. You came here empty handed trying to bullshit us into believing what you have to say. Weâre not stupid. Bring us something concrete. So far you havenât.
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New evidence suggests a connection that can help us understand the emergence of Western religion.
The psychedelic roots of Christianity
The author is Brian Muraresku, a lawyer and classicist, who spent about 12 years exploring how the ritualized use of psychedelics in Greece spilled into early Christianity.
History Of Drug Use In Religion
References to the ritual use of drugs are scattered through the history of religions, and there is no doubt that the practice is ancient, its origins lost in prehistory. Presumed ceremonial use of Cannabis among the Scythians in the 5th to 2nd century BCE is suggested by the censers for burning hemp seeds found in the frozen tombs at Pazyryk in the Altai Mountains. The ancient Greeks used wine in Dionysian rites, and circumstantial evidence points to the use of a hallucinogenic substance in the most solemn moments of the Eleusinian Mysteries of ancient Greece: the drinking of kykeĹn, a thick gruel of unknown composition. Both the secular and the cultic use of the Amanita muscaria mushroom in Siberia probably go back more than 6,000 years, and cultic use has spread beyond the cool temperate climates where the mushroom grows. Evidence of the cultic use of opium in the eastern Mediterranean islands, in Greece, and among the Sumerians points to dates as early as 3000 BCE, though some of this evidence is disputed.
Early Christians Might Have Been High on Hallucinogenic Communion Wine. Could the communion wine of historyâs earliest Christians have been a hallucinogen? This is the question that The Immortality Key, a new book by religious scholar, archaeology sleuth and classicist Brian Muraresku, aims to answer.
Drawing on more than ten years of research across six countries, Muraresku links the drug-fuelled rituals of Ancient Greece and the Mediterranean to the simultaneous outgrowth of Christianity in first-century IsraelâŚ
Pretty sure of yourself huh!
@Cognostic Apples to oranges. Iâm talking about ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, and China. Youâre talking about ancient Greece and Asia Minor.
Thought this was fairly clear⌠Pre-Christian Drug Use.
Religion as a Product of Psychotropic Drug Use
How much of religious history was influenced by mind-altering substances?
DECEMBER 28, 2013
The notion that hallucinogenic drugs played a significant part in the development of religion has been extensively discussed, particularly since the middle of the twentieth century. Various ideas of this type have been collected into what has become known as the entheogen theory.
There is extensive evidence for drug use in early religious rituals.
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Abstract and Figures
Psychoactive plants have played an important role in medicine, religion, ritual life, and recreation since ancient times. In shamanic religions, which appear to have dominated throughout much of human pre-history, trance induced by psychoactive plants and other techniques permits direct contact with the divine. For this reason, plant hallucinogens and other psychoactive botanicals have been considered by cultures throughout history as âplants of the godsâ: sacred substances that bring knowledge, power, healing, and mystical insight, but that must be used with utmost respect and caution. With the spread of Christianity, and especially since the Inquisition and Conquest of the New World, the religious use of psychoactive plants has been severely and sometimes violently suppressed.
Why should it be opium based or a feasting ritual? Psylosyben, ergot, The ancient Egyptians brewed mandrake beer , the Incas made chicha with coca leaves, thorn apple and winch seeds. ⌠There is no known psychoactive plant that has not been added to beer at some point. The ancient Egyptians brewed mandrake beer , the Incas made chicha with coca leaves, thorn apple and winch seeds.â
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He has no objective evidence of any kind, despite lying that he he can demonstrate it, then running away to think up an excuse for his lie, then lying on his return that heâd never said it.
He also doesnât know what rational means, as he has repeatedly used known common logical fallacies, even repeating them after theyâve been pointed out and explained to him.
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@Cognostic The texts I read from ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, and China about living statues do not sound like hallucinations (e.g., no descriptions of warped vision or hearing, no description of strange colors), and do not begin with priests drinking beer or taking in any other substance. Instead, they bring the beer, wine, etc. to a statue and offer it to them, and they supposedly drink it.
If you know of texts that sound like hallucinations from any of these three states, please provide them to me, I am interested in reading them.
What drugs are you taking, boy?
Because youâre making about as much sense as someone whose doped out of their mind on meth. All this crap youâre spewing and writing about on here is going on in your MIND. YOU SOUND CRAZY! NUTs I tell you. Sure, it makes sense to you. Because itâs in your head. Youâre not making sense at all to EVERYONE in this thread with your sermons and rantings.
Do you ever listen to yourself when you talk? Do you know how crazy you sound?
You come off like that cult religious nut that no one wants to be around where I live.
You say you can prove it, you obviously cannot as you have no physical or objective evidence. You canât just say something exists just because you believe itâs there. You need to back it up and youâre not doing that either.
Do everyone a favor, stop doing meth or get off of the illegal prescription drugs youâre on (Because thatâs how you come off) and get your head on straight before discussing your beliefs with a bunch of atheists. Bring evidence to the argument. Yes, as youâre a âtheistâ. I think itâs in your best interest to get some strong evidence to bargain your beliefs with a group of Atheists. We canât go off of your words on here or take you seriously.
Please try to listen to what Iâm trying to say without interpreting it as a person attack:
What you are telling us sounds like a no true Scotsman. It seems you are using a cartoon definition of hallucinations, to set the bar so high that nothing will ever challenge your model.
Iâve had many, many hallucinations; and Iâve never had one that even comes close to meeting the bar you have set. That is a serious problem for your model, imo.
@Nyarlathotep I have to have a working definition of a hallucination. Iâm going off my own knowledge of hallucinating on LSD, mushrooms, and rarely cannabis, and conversations Iâve had with other drug-users.
What are your hallucinations like? Iâm genuinely curious. You donât see strange colors, hear distorted sound, or experienced warped vision? This is not a cartoon definition, this is my own experience.
Iâll give an example.
When I was a young man, I drove a truck around the city picking up and dropping off dry cleaning. My friend worked at one of hotels I deliver too and once in a while (when things worked out that way) I would break company policy and give him a ride home.
One day I picked him up at the hotel and drove him home. It wasnât until many hours later that I discovered that I hallucinated picking him up, I hallucinated driving him home, I hallucinated a conversation with him. The experience felt as real as any other, even to this day.
When I was in the Army, hallucinations that can not be identified as such were a very common experience for my buddies and I. For example: when counting the other members of the team to ensure no one has gotten separated, we were taught to touch each person as they pass by on their head. Why? To make sure they were real! (make sure we didnât hallucinate them). I canât count the number of times Iâve put my hand right though what I thought was a friend; only to have them disappear right before my eyes.
There is always a danger that people will see what they want to see.
Just substitute âParkinsonâsâ with âreligious beliefâ, and you have an accurate picture:
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