If the observable universe had not manifested would sufficient preconditions necessarily have been absent?
If preconditions existed outside of what is observable what would the most basic affective characteristics of that state or force be?
What are the most basic reasonable implications about the nature of preexisting conditions based on observable physical law?
Which of those implications is most likely to cause human beings to attribute personal character or deity?
Is it possible to know, derive meaningful understanding of, and predict the future action of an unobservable force based on present observations of the material universe?
Is it necessary for such a precondition or force to remain intact subsequent to initiating material consequence?
Is it reasonable to ascribe continuing agency to this preexisting condition or unseen force?
How might an investigator reorient further investigation, self-concept, and disposition toward such a precondition or force if able to know its characteristics more concretely?
I don’t know, if it cannot be observed how can we gather any data on it to examine?
I cannot speculate as to why others would be minded to believe in a deity, especially as I have never seen any objective evidence or rational argument for any deity.
You have demonstrated no evidence, or argument that such a force exists, so I cannot speculate about it.
Again you have demonstrated no objective evidence, or rational argument that such a force exists, so again I cannot speculate about it.
Again you’re asking others to indulge in wild speculation based on your wild speculation, to what end? Can you demonstrate anything approaching objective evidence for such a force? Until or unless you can, it is meaningless to speculate about the imaginary characteristics of an imaginary force.
Welcome to AR by the way.
Also may I ask if you are a theist, and if you hold any religious beliefs? If so what objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity, or any religious beliefs you hold?
Hi Jphn, welcome to the forums. It completely puzzles me why you would enter an Atheist forum and ask questions about the universe. Shouldn’t you be in an Astronomy forum someplace? Atheists are People who do not believe in God or gods. What in the hell do you imagine that has to do with the universe? Well, let’s go see what you have to say… I’m not expecting much given that you do not actually know where to go for information about the universe.
Well, you are not disappointing me…
[quote=“JohnG, post:1, topic:354”]
If the observable universe had not manifested would sufficient preconditions necessarily have been absent?
[/quote] (PRECONDITIONS FOR WHAT?)
[quote=“JohnG, post:1, topic:354”]
What are the most basic reasonable implications about the nature of preexisting conditions based on observable physical law?
[/quote] (THIS QUESTION IS VAGUE AND NONSENSICAL.)
[quote=“JohnG, post:1, topic:354”]
Which of those implications is most likely to cause human beings to attribute personal character or deity?
[/quote] *not knowing the cause of events appears to be enough for human beings to ascribe events to magical forces."
[quote=“JohnG, post:1, topic:354”]
Is it possible to know, derive meaningful understanding of, and predict the future action of an unobservable force based on present observations of the material universe
[/quote] (MORE UTTER AND COMPLETE NONSENSE)
An unobserved force is the same thing as a force that is not there. You are not justified in asserting it is a force until it or its affects are observed,.
MORE COMPLETE NONSENSE
[quote=“JohnG, post:1, topic:354”]
s it reasonable to ascribe continuing agency to this preexisting condition or unseen force?
[/quote] (WHY WOULD YOU ASCRIBE AGENCY TO A FORCE? THAT IS WHAT THE IRON AGE IDIOTS WHO WROTE THE BIBLE DID. HAVEN’T WE MOVED PAST THAT?
Welcome from sunny South Australia.Right now it’s 0811 Sunday 8 August. It was 10C when I got up half an hour ago. This is considered cold, which is fair enough because it’s winter.
In answer to your questions: Unfortunately, I lack almost any knowledge of astrophysics.
I DID once ask an actual astrophysicist “What was there before the big bang?” Dumbing it down for me, he replied; “There was no before the big bang”. He then elaborated, losing me within about 30 seconds. Science at that level has never been a thing for me.
I’ll try just one: question:
Any and all, because human beings can be incredibly stupid. If you are asking what are the implications of a deity, off hand,I’d say none.
I get the distinct impression that you are trying to argue god into existence.** I apologise if I’ve misunderstood. But then you haven’t actually expressed any opinions.
My position is that god cannot be argued into existence. I demand empirical evidence and will accept nothing less. Theists are in a bit of a bind there.So far, all claims about god are unfalsifiable.IE In recorded history, no one has yet managed to prove or disprove the existence of god(s)
If you post some opinions about say God(s), the bible or the history of christianity, I’ll do my best to reply.
nice questions, too complicated. we don’t have any idea about the nature or this unseen power. I guess humans didn’t find the answer for it. maybe next humanity will get the answer. I don’t believe myself this power has any character, because no matter what happen on this earth, there is no reaction from the other side.
That is my impression too, the the OP is attempting to argue a god into existence.
My main problem is that one must begin by making assumptions with zero evidence, just wild speculation. But when one begins to examine such a profound question, it is folly to begin by making assumptions instead of following the evidence.
We arrived at the present big bang model by following the evidence, so why all of a sudden should we abandon what got us to that point and embark on wild speculation, speculation directed by one’s personal philosophies? Speculation that suggests an agent instead of just the natural processes?
What were the conditions before the big bang? That is the question.
I don’t like being manipulated with obscure questions like these. If you are suggesting that the universe was created by your imaginary friend, why not say so right from the start.
You’re not dealing with brainwashed god-thralls here. Atheists by definition have the power of reason and critical thinking.
That makes three of us who read the questions the same way. I just checked; JohnG has not stated he’s atheist. I must therefore assume he’s a theist of some kind.
.
Seems we may have yet another disingenuous apologist, possibly a pigeon.
Don’t each of the sacred works of the Abrahamic faiths admonish against telling lies?***
***OK, Muslims get a pass. The Quran gives Muslims permission to lie to save life, or FOR ANY OTHER REASON to a kafir. (non Muslim) However,such people do not have MY permission to lie to me. Consequently, if I catch people in a lie, I will often say unkind things,using very coarse language.