If there is a well-proven fact in this world, it is the extrasensory perception during the state of clinical death. An inert body, with no heartbeat or any brain activity, suddenly awakens and describes, in great detail, what happened during his trance, not only in the room where he lay, but in the other rooms of the house or hospital, which from where he was he could not see even if he was awake, in good health and with his eyes open. This has been repeated so many times, and it has been attested by so many reputable scientific authorities, that only a complete ignorant in the matter can insist on remaining incredulous.
Well… lets see… how about you try to pony up some evidence…?
You know…something provable … something testable … something…well anything really.
I agree with the watchman, waiting patting foot, rolling eyes…
Why do you believe that stuff is true and really happened?
Oliver Sacks: “the one most plausible hypothesis in Dr. Alexander’s case, then, is that his NDE occurred not during his coma, but as he was surfacing from the coma and his cortex was returning to full function. It is curious that he does not allow this obvious and natural explanation, but instead insists on a supernatural one.”
The young man at the center of The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven , Alex Malarkey, said he made the story up. In his own words, “I did not die. I did not go to Heaven. I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention.” The publisher pulled the book from the shelves.
Chris French, a psychologist specializing in paranormal beliefs, had the following to say about the celebrated Pam Reynolds “NDE.”
Woerlee, an anesthesiologist with many years of clinical experience, has considered this case in detail and remains unconvinced of the need for a paranormal explanation... [He] draws attention to the fact that Reynolds could only give a report of her experience some time after she recovered from the anesthetic as she was still intubated when she regained consciousness. This would provide some opportunity for her to associate and elaborate upon the sensations she had experienced during the operation with her existing knowledge and expectations. The fact that she described the small pneumatic saw used in the operation also does not impress Woerlee. As he points out, the saw sounds like and, to some extent, looks like the pneumatic drills used by dentists.
EVERY supposed NDE has been debunked.
The only fact is the “recall” of the patient. The memory of the experience claimed.
It is no more reliable then anything claimed by another person’s memory.
The brain states during death are being studied…and the term “clinical death” is not an absolute.
The “experiences” of out-of-body and aliens or otherworldly beings have been recreated on conscious individuals (a brain state).
(Our “sense” of time/space)
Other science studies too, involving “balance, gravity, electrical, etc”.
@nessahanalita Please be aware that in December of 2010 I went through emergency surgery for a very critical situation. When I was under, I had a very powerful dream, the contents were something I had been thinking about a lot. Many hours later, in the Intensive Care Unit, I was informed that my heart stopped twice.
That precisely fits into the definition of a Near Death Experience.
The content of my dream was not supernatural, it was just a dream.
@nessahanalita So here you are, taking direct testimony from someone who experienced a NDE (myself). Who are you to believe, video clips that you can not examine or test, or a first-hand account from someone who had an NDE?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ! Just the title of the article had me ROFLMAO. The soul is the most dead concept in all of religion. I can’t wait for this bullshit!
A four-year-old feeling the touch of God, allowing his parents to become successful evangelists? Gee, I wonder where I’ve heard that before…
For those of you who don’t know, Marjoe Gortner was a four-year-old preacher’s son with a photographic memory who was ordained as a minister and traveled America spreading the word until people just got sick of the novelty. As an adult, Gortner revealed that he was actually a lifelong atheist, and teamed with a pair of documentarians to create the landmark, Oscar-winning exposé Marjoe . (In retrospect, this may have had more to do with Gortner trying to kick-start his failed movie career, but can you blame the guy?)
Celebrity Net Worth, Richest Rappers, Biography & Salaries – LOLWOT
AND NOW WE JUMP TO REINCARNATION… REALLY?
In 2001 I got an email from a mother in Louisiana, Andrea Leininger. She told me that she had just gotten a copy of my first book, Children’s Past Lives, and she believed that her two-year-old son, James, was having nightmares about a past life. He would wake up screaming about 3 or 4 times a week about his plane crashing… I told her to follow the guidelines in my book for helping James work through his nightmares…
So from about the age of 3, James’ parents were following the advice of a past life regression promoter to manage the boy’s interest in WWII airplanes — having first already decided on their own that he was in fact a reincarnated pilot. Part of Bowman’s advice was to repeatedly assure this toddler that he was, in fact, a reincarnated WWII fighter pilot. The Leiningers wrote in their book:
Carol advised Andrea to tell James that what he was experiencing were things that had happened to him before, that it was now over, and that he was now safe.
That is psychologically outrageous. Remember, the notion that James had been reincarnated was never his own; it was his parents’, primarily Andrea’s, own idea. The parents, under the guidance of a strongly motivated self-described “therapist”, put the idea into his head themselves. Bowman describes her book as “a memoir of [her] discoveries after she witnessed past life memories in her own two children, and a guidebook for parents.” No. No parenting guidebook should advise teaching your three-year-old to believe a delusion, certainly not one that takes away his individuality and teaches that he’s someone else. Nevertheless, Bowman continued exploiting little James to promote her agenda, just as Bernstein did before her:
I encouraged Andrea and her husband, Bruce, to write a book about James’s memories. Finally, after three years, they were ready to do it. I introduced them to my wonderful agent, Al Zuckerman, and their book, Soul Survivor*, will be released at the end of May.*
Bowman and Bernstein had other things in common; most notably, a total lack of relevant education in psychology or any kind of therapy. Both wrote popular books promoting themselves as experts. And sadly, both managed to convince people of the reality of reincarnation. People who invent their own field and declare themselves its expert are usually dismissed as cranks; but when we fail to apply a skeptical process, we can easily end up conferring unearned respect on those very same cranks and, in the process, regard an innocent toddler — who wants only to play with his airplanes — as proof of the supernatural.
Miracles are what happens when the ignorant meet the unexplained.
Was a time I was interested in ‘astral projection’ which seems to be very similar to NDE’s. I read a bunch of stuff and ‘trained’. All that would happen is that I would fall asleep. I have had quite a few dreams in which I’m flying, also of falling. Once I dreamed I had died. That was terrifying.
I have met a couple of people who claimed they were capable of astral projection. I set up a simple test for then . EG to describe room they had never seen and an object on the top of a wardrobe. No luck at all. Those people were not frauds imo, they believed that shit and heaps of other so called occult*** things…
I once read of a doctor who had peoples’ beds set up on large scales. At the moment of death, body weight decreased by a couple of grams .Obviously the spirit leaving the body.
Yair. That’s why I’ve always had a phobia about being buried alive. Hence my determination to be cremated. Plus of course, imo any awareness after that procedure might be evidence of a soul.
Until then, I’ve seen no empirical evidence of any non material reality.
Fascinating how scientifically illiterate believers so often insist on using terms such as ‘scientific fact’
***The word simply means "hidden’
The very name of your thread is a problem. The soul is not a scientific fact, it’s never been proven. Prove the soul and then we’ll talk about its immortality.
Sorry to be a noodge. The term ‘proof’ is used in mathematics, but not in science ,which uses terms such as 'demonstrated ’ or ‘shown’. This is because science does not make absolute claims. In science, all questions remain open.
This is my understanding. I may be mistaken.
Come on man, you know what I mean I don’t mean a mathematical proof, I mean shown to exist.
Course I do. I was being pedantic for a reason… I know what you mean. Seems to me the OP may not. Just an attempt at clarity of expression.
That’s fair. God has never been shown to exist, I think we can agree on that. I don’t even know how you would show he existed, or she, or they existed, unless they show up demonstrably.
We have mathematic facts, that are proven.
Scientific stuff is demonstrated and shown.
So then facts/scientific facts are…facted?
Christian apologists often ask that question, in an attempt to evade the burden of proof.
My answer is along the lines of “I have no idea. Not my problem. I presume you refer to the Abrahamic god YHWH, to whom you have ascribed many characteristics. If that god exist, imo he would have no trouble in giving a demonstration of his existence which I would be able to accept.”
Having said that, one can’t help but wonder why such a god would remain hidden for so long. So far in recorded history, he has not shown that he actually exist.
There is a terrific film of a play about god being an arsehole who broke the Abrahamic covenant by allowing the Holocaust.
The film is called “God On Trial” and I highly recommend it.
I did the same thing and can still do it today. Sleep may be a function of the time of day you practiced. Best to practice on an empty stomach and after being well rested. (It is just a brain state and is easily obtainable by anyone with practice. Nothing spiritual or supernatural. Basic body functions of sleep paralysis and phantom limb syndrome explain everything.)
COUGH BULLSHIT COUGH…
Be a dear and link the peer reviewed research, and worthy peer reviewed journals that have published it. Then please explain how the entire scientific world and the Nobel committee have missed this paradigm shifting discovery?
You’re a shameless liar…and my patience for bullshit has reached its zenith over the last few days, so if you persist with your imbecillic woo woo you can expect me to take the fucking gloves off…
I’d argue it is much less reliable. A near death experience takes place (almost by definition) when you are not of sound mind and body.
I had a sudden health crisis a few years back, where I was on the edge. My memory from that period is all jacked up and I don’t believe any of it. I believe what my wife says happened because she wasn’t sick.
Yes but you’re “biased” in favour of objective reason, if you accepted a deity exists prima facie, then you’d see the wisdom in inserting its influence into every remotely inexplicable event…
You lose something…goddidit…you find something goddidit…you have an accident goddidit…you avoid an accident goddidit…it doesn’t rain goddidit…it does rain goddidit…