The circle of life is a fallacy that imprisons us

Debate Room
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The vast majority of people do not have access to such technology and the rich nations are not about to give it too them free or even cheap.

"WASHINGTON, Oct. 17, 2018 — Economic advances around the world mean that while fewer people live in extreme poverty, almost half the world’s population — 3.4 billion people — still struggles to meet basic needs, the World Bank said.

Living on less than $3.20 per day reflects poverty lines in lower-middle-income countries, while $5.50 a day reflects standards in upper-middle-income countries, the World Bank said in its biennial Poverty and Shared Prosperity Report, “Piecing Together the Poverty Puzzle.”

The World Bank remains committed to achieving the goal of ending extreme poverty, defined as living on less than $1.90 a day, by 2030. The share of the world’s population living in extreme poverty fell to 10 percent in 2015, but the pace of extreme poverty reduction has slowed, the Bank warned on Sept. 19. "

Even allowing for difference of value, compare those figures with the poorest people in developing nations.

I have seen extreme poverty twice in my life; In Rural Malaysia in 1969 and in the Philippines, in three places in 1979: Tondo slum in Manilla , Rural Luzon and among sugar workers on the island of Negros. At that time, a day labourer was paid 10 pesos a day. A peso was worth $AU0.12 .

When I first arrived in Malaysia, the Australian dollar was worth. 3.29 ringgat. When I returned for a visit in 2000, it had not changed.

When I arrived in Singapore in 1970. The exchange rate of Singapore to Australia was the same as Malaysia. When I returned in 1988, the Singapore dollar had reached parity with the Australian dollar. Today, 4 February 2012, the Singaporean dollar = $A1.02.

Apparent reason; Singapore began developing manufacturing in 1969.It is also a tiny country of 5.7 million people, on an Island of 281.1 square miles. That means establishing of infrastructure was relatively cheap. There are lots of other reasons including an authoritarian government since independence from Malaysia in 1965.

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As have I. Try imagining everyone being rich, and ask yourself who’s going to make the goods and provide the services that make that wealth real, if no one is poor?

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As it turns out Jesus is reported as saying Matthew 26:11 " The poor you will always have with you”

As to your question; if there were no poor who would would bother with having a McJob? Plus of course all the well paying crappy jobs.

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Hey, you’re too old to use that term! :exploding_head: :blush:

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Jesus and Matthew aside, there is absolutely no reason to have to have poor suffering people.
Once again religion is on the wrong side.
Just about all the reputable economists will tell you (and I agree) that our current economic system, whatever you want to call it (i.e. capitalism) requires having at least a few percent of the population unemployed. And anytime there is an event like COVID that changes a large economic sector like restaurants, the failures of our education system and economic system are exposed.

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I seem to usually agree with Whitefire13.
Everytime anyone takes a hard look at productive capacity, it is sky high.
But though historical and geological accident, we are not one, cooperative human race.

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Not many species on this planet are. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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That is not the point. We ARE different from other species. We are the most sentient, the most capable of thinking, the most capable of shaping our environment and altering our productive capacity. But we still squander our intelligence and smother our potential as human beings.
Sometimes I hope that there are aliens because that would mean there is intelligent life advanced enough to travel interstellar distances and make it to our planet. And they probably have their shit together much more than we do or they would probably not have made it this far.

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Well if our small minuscule earth is a sample of what it takes to advance with a brain :brain: and thumbs in “our species” ape-like way, this may not be the best hope.

Heaven knows what dolphins would do with technology, or ants or alligators … or cats :cat:

Cats don’t give a shit about anything. At least we have the capacity to “care”.

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How about if ants evolved to have hands and took their hive mentality to the next level, e.g. the borg? LOL not likely because of specific developmental constraints.
You know bats have human hand structure as the support structure for the wings…imagine if I could geneticall engineed bats with wings and hands at the end, wow. They would take over in a flash, LOL

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Seriously? Give me a break. All the evidence is against you. Point to a time in history when there were not poor suffering people.

I also do not agree that “Capitalism Requires”… Capitalism, unrestrained, results in … but in no way “requires.” Perhaps with sufficient limits, it would not resemble what we know of as Capitalism today; however, there is a way to have a free and open market for businessmen without taking advantage of the poor. The problem is that the corporations get so big, many with the incomes of small countries, that they influence law in their favor. We once had anti monopoly legislation but corporate entities have worked around it. We have minimum wage laws and environmental protection laws, and companies just work around them…

Imagine a capitalist system, standardized. Perhaps Caps on earnings where you can grow and expand a business to have a very good life, but with a limit. (I’m just thinking out loud,) I think Capitalism is a good system but it lends itself to abuse. I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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Monkeys have hands, and even opposable thumbs… They come in handy for scratching asses and flinging poo ??? Should we be afraid?

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IMO I guess it’s OK to visit reality if you really must. But I wouldn’t want to actually live there :face_with_monocle:

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I know I’m very late to the conversation, but was the OP talking about the circle of life in a way that’s analogous to something like the food chain?

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I can’t fuckin’ remember. It was a long time ago.

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