The circle of life is a fallacy that imprisons us
You are going to have to get more specific with “circle of life” …
Are we talking “Lion King”?
Are you talking about life on earth and all living organisms’ life and death cycle?
Was I supposed to say more than this?
Circle of life is genetically programmed bs and every athiest knows it.
I don’t care if half my genes are passed on or not, I want to live myself!
Is that “selfish?” BS! Imagine a world filled with people that have the wisdom of their years - not decrepit and broken down but with extended healthspan and full of knowledge.
Would they want to go and fight and die in wars? Of course not!!!
False beliefs that drive us no to our better natures but to fight and die thinking that we are going to a better place and blah blah blah.
Lion King is certainly an example, as it glorifies the circle of life.
But the COF is really that it is OK to die because you live on through you children, and your body is recycled into the earth. Then your children and their children and so on doing the same thing over and over because it is “natural order.”
This is then codified by religion meaning you will have an afterlife but only if you live the “right” way as defined by whatever church/religion is spewing the BS.
imagine if everyone on earth KNEW as a certainty, or even just lived as if they KNEW as a certainty that this was the only life they and everyone else was ever going to get.
The only reality I know is the present one. At present I do not have the tools for eternal life on earth and to me death is a certainty I must accept. What if’s only complicates the present reality and adds further stress I do not need. Stress is a factor than can cause an earlier death and this I can have control over if I wish. I cannot nail in a flat head nail with a screwdriver. I live and die with what I have and have not.
I have no idea what an eternal life on earth entails and what type of life that would be and for that reason I cannot say that I seek it. If God is an example of eternal life, I don’t even know what that entails or means.
I have no idea what your vision of eternal life entails so how can I subscribe to it? Is it life as we know it but eternal? Is it perfect health? Is it a world of perfect people whatever that may be? Will there be poverty? Poverty is one reason people have joined the army.
In your perfect eternal life on earth, should we extend the same to all living species or just mankind and how do we come to this conclusion?
In my little island of the word; when someone says “circle of life” they are typically excusing their killing of another life form (yes I’m eating part of a cow, circle of life!). Something along the lines of: yes, I’m responsible for killing another creature, but that is how I say alive.
Yes. This is a debate forum. Making an unsupported claim isn’t very helpful. Saying ‘why’ with any evidence you have is what we aim for.(well, I do, don’t always succeed either)
My view is that the purpose of life is itself. Not in the crude individual sense, but in the sense that all living things contain life. For me life is a continuum, the individual organism is irrelevant, it’s simply a means to an end. If that makes sense.
Yair. An awful lot of people believe that to be true and will claim they know it as a fact, which of course they do not.
Much of the world believes in reincarnation. Basically, that we keep coming back until we get it right.
I’m not convinced that ‘knowing’ makes all that much difference. Take a look at the lives of the most devout believers. I’ve always though that deep down such people may not be so certain of their beliefs.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks” (Hamlet, Act 3 scene 2)
One of the most rational things anyone ever said to me at my catholic boys school was “only a fool never has any doubts about his faith”
What circle, I always thought it was a dead-end.
Even if everyone knew this, it would not stop people procreating. We are ruled by our genitals and our genes which provides us all with different psychological characteristics. People don’t have families because there is an ideal called the ‘circle of life’ or because ‘Jesus loves them’. They have children because they want to have sex and once that happens the genes ensure certain hormonal changes occur in both sexes that have the general effect of changing ‘sensual couples’ to ‘caring parents’ and I include social mores that promote communal childcare through aunts and uncles and extended relatives. Religion did not invent this, but they did take advantage of it and will take credit for it through their various divine agencies and then add their own peculiar restrictions. The Catholic Church did not formalise marriage ceremonies until the 11th century when they realised the potential for control of the families of the poor and vulgar.
I am too cynical to accept that if we all had concrete knowledge of our own mortality and lots of rational emotional intelligence and evidential information that this would stop us from killing each other in either passionate outbursts or in organised warfare. We remain at base irrational and unpredictable creatures because of the chemistry of our bodies and that is genetic.
We are not that much different from the C19 virus which keeps mutating to survive, it certainly doesnt know about any ‘circle of life’ and Homo sapien just keep reproducing because our genes share that same desperate urge to survive, we just get the frontal lobes to give us things to occupy us until we die.
What concepts like the ‘circle of life’ does do though, and religions, is give comfort when we understand there is no rationalising our mortality, its just going to happen. I am happy with my mortality, I see it as a natural outcome of the physics and chemistry of life. I see nothing beyond the natural world, especially no supernatural world. There’s no intrinsic harm with such a view as the circle of life until it starts getting mixed up with transactional demands of imaginary gods and religions.
We have to think outside the box to get outside the box. Someone has to think about it to think of ways to get there.
Adn I never said eternal anything. NOthing is eternal not even the universe which we do not understand. But if you could have a healthy life for hundreds or thousands of years that would change your perpective, wouldn’t it?
Anyway I was talking about the “circle of life” not eternal life
Nope. Life extension IS going to happen. I am just talking about dealing with it.
Do you know what the single most correlated trait when we genetically or pharmacologically extend lifespan in model organisms from yeast to worms, flies, mice?
It is reduced numbers of offspring!!!
Most religions have death defending the faith as a sure way to get to heaven.
The Crusades, etc etc.
Vietnam - how many of the Americans that ran away from the draft were Athiests vs. in the general population? I think I know the answer.
Heaven, reincarnation, whatever - as long as it is different than everything just ends which is the truth.
Knowing makes a huge difference. But you are right to the extent that there are a lot of people that “know” but chose to go to Church or whatever with their wife and kids because it provides “community,” while us athiests seem to have no answer. People need other people for company, support, and so on. And they are oftten willing to leave reason at the door in order to have it.
Passionate outbursts, yes, but organized warfare…only the poorest, with no better options, would choose the high risk of death in war unless there was a much better reason than, say, a Vietnam.
If and when science gets there “I’ll” be dead. My kid’s kids perhaps. I’m hoping for a long, rather active old age.
That’s my bet - BUT science is going to have to get past all the resistance (like fetal material…Fuckin’ can’t think of the right wording… ahhhhh “stem cells”)
There are already trees that live thousands of years. Some mammals and vertebrates can live more than 200 years. And we don’t have a very good understanding of what determines lifespan. But more than any other species, we can shape our environment and ourselves.
And we will
No idea at all what your rant is about. “Circle of Life is a Disney Movie.” Perhaps you wanted to reference the “Life Cycle.” Then, of course, you would have to indicate what the fuck you are referencing. The ‘Life Cycle’ of a human is completely different than the “Life Cycle” or a Garzoid.
Why would anyone assume anything different? The “Life Cycle” is a biological description of the procession of life in a species. Assuming you are talking about a “Life Cycle” and not a 'Circle of Life from a cartoon you once saw. The Cycle of life is a biological tool, based on observation, that allows us to understand our own species as well as others.
The “Life Cycle” of humans, helps biologists and other interested parties explain …
Throughout the human life cycle, the body constantly changes and goes through different periods known as stages. The major stages of the human life cycle are defined as follows:
- Pregnancy. The development of a zygote into an embryo and then into a fetus in preparation for childbirth.
- Infancy. The earliest part of childhood. It is the period from birth through age one.
- Toddler years. Occur during ages two and three and are the end of early childhood.
- Childhood. Takes place from ages four to eight.
- Puberty. The period from ages nine to thirteen, which is the beginning of adolescence.
- Older adolescence. The stage that takes place between ages fourteen and eighteen.
- Adulthood. The period from adolescence to the end of life and begins at age nineteen.
- Middle age. The period of adulthood that stretches from age thirty-one to fifty.
- Senior years, or old age. Extend from age fifty-one until the end of life.
All of this is based on research and empirical studies, not a cartoon song. So, with definitions now clear, let’s go back and look at your original post.
The “Cycle of Life” is a fallacy. 1. Why would anyone assume anything less from a cartoon? Have you thought of actually watching a science documentary?
[quote=“garzoid, post:3, topic:1156”] Was I supposed to say more than this?
[/quote] 2. Ummm, DUH! Very few of us speak baby talk.
Cycle of life is genetically programed BS. And then something about fighting and dying in wars? 3. NONE of this is part of the human life cycle. The human life cycle is based on observation and documentation. Do you really believe our DNA is responsible for our longer life spans? What false beliefs are you referencing? The life cycle is empirically documented?
[quote=“garzoid, post:5, topic:1156, full:true”] imagine if everyone on earth KNEW as a certainty, or even just lived as if they KNEW as a certainty that this was the only life they and everyone else was ever going to get. [/quote] 4. Okay, I am imagining. Now what? Do you have any empirical data to suggest that anything would be any better than it is now. Any data at all?
Well, just fuck every post you previously made. Life span is going to happen. DNA is controlling jack shit. Science has the the issue in hand and you are just talking our your ass.
Anyone want to hypothesize about the Life Cycle of a Garzoid on this site?
It appears he may be stuck here for a while as he is unable to find the exit. We don’t have any cute cartoon pics or catchy tunes to guide him on his way.
Asshole!!! TAKE THAT BACK!!!