Anyone who thinks Planned Parenthood swaps fetus/baby parts for fancy European sports cars is NOT a serious person.
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WTF are you talking about?
Really…everyone knows that it is Ferraris that are traded for baby parts…
Not enough info, which parts, is it a new Ferrari, what model?
No more eating babies if they’re this lucrative. Er, I mean nothing to see here. no atheists eat babies etc etc… 
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It’s worth seeing the response to me highlighting @WhoAreYou’s false equivalency fallacy there again here:
- A pretty obvious straw man lie, as anyone can see I did no such thing.
- Indeed a woman is responsible for what happens to her own body, again a straw man since I never said otherwise, though an odd response from someone who wants to take that responsibility away. You can’t both want a woman to take responsibility for her body, and then insist she only does what you’ve decided you want her to do.
- I didn’t, the comparison was his, by implying abortions are wrong by asking what constitutes life?
The example I gave of a slug is also alive, the comparison therefore was his not mine, yet he implies it is not comparable to a blastocyst, or foetus, hence the criteria of “being alive” is a false equivalence, as on its own it is not a relevant objection to terminating a pregnancy, and the idea we would afford more rights to an insentient clump of cells, than we do sentient humans, even at the cost of taking away the right to bodily autonomy of a pregnant woman, is morally absurd, as he was told of course, and of course as he ignored.
I wonder if for a change he will have the courage and integrity to honestly debate this topic he has involved himself in, and explain why he disagrees with something other than straw man fallacies, drawn from false assumptions about people in the same way his apologetics does about atheists and atheism?
No one has the right to use your body to sustain their life without your consent.
Even the dead have rights over their remains.
A woman’s choice.
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But but but, er alive n’stuff?
This really pisses me off. It is such a common argument amongst the folks who do not support a woman’s right to choose. What it thinly veils is a person’s membership in the cult that worships virginity as a virtue…but only a woman’s virginity. It veils the belief that women who have sex should be punished by forcing them to give birth. It tells the tale that the one espousing it does not give two shits about the human being who does not want the body that belongs to them used by another. It does not take into account the many any varying reasons a person chooses abortion. It lacks respect. It lacks an understanding of biology. It is controlling. I find it abhorrent.
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Indeed, “punish the sluts” has been a vicious central tenet of Abrahamic mythologies since their inception, a tenet that is long overdue for tossing into the bin.
Which, of course, is also tied intimately to the view endemic to said mythologies, that members of various demographics are purportedly “inferior” to the doctrinal “elect”, and fit only to be used as playthings thereby.
Examples of supposedly “inferior” groups being:
[1] Anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the mythology in question;
[2] Anyone who gets in the way of any ethnic cleansing that is supposedly “divinely ordered”;
[3] Women in general;
[4] Foreigners (declared in all of these mythologies to be merely sources of slave labour).
Of course, the fanboys of said mythologies don’t want these uncomfortable facts to be subject to the public spotlight for several reasons, in some cases because the “othering” of said demographics is consonant with dark and sadistic fantasies that the mythology fanboys in question harbour, and cannot wait to put into practice in a consequence-free manner.
You want a recent example? Look up Cameron Hooker. This individual isn’t unique by any stretch of the imagination, as the numerous “pastors” arrested for playing “Hide The Sausage” with 12 year old girls informs us chillingly.
Indeed, the whole disturbing and creepy fetishisation of female virginity has led to some very nasty by-products. Back in the 19th century, the elite in Victorian England presided over a hideous industry involving enforced prostitution and an international trade in sex slaves. One prominent MP was alleged to have had a standing order with a brothel for 40 virgins every year, some of the unfortunate rape victims in question being just 11 years old. This at a time when Pharisaic Christian religiosity infected the UK to its most venomous extent.
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You actually ask a very good question: “What constitutes life?”
The definition has changed from time to time in the past.
280 years ago, a master could kill his slave if it was convenient to do so . . . and that was here in the United States. So, certian types of human life are more valuable than others, as we see in cases like the murder of George Floyd.
In other instances, human life takes a back seat to inanimate objects, as we judge our right to own assault rifles (such as the AR-15) to be more valuable than the lives of the children whom were murdered in school shootings.
Also, please note that 250 years ago, abortionists (such as midwives) frequently advertised their services on the church bulletin board . . . although–to be fair–these services were euphemistically phrased to avoid causing offense.
The idea that Christianity is philosophically opposed to abortion is a realtively new principle, and it was quite common in the past, as abortion was considered a private matter to be worked out between a doctor (or midwife) and the patient.
Whether you like it or not, the real world has grey areas, and abortion is–sometimes–neccessary.
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That’s why I always ask why the bible explains how a priest should perform an abortion in the Old Testament. (Sorry I don’t have the book or verse off the top of my head) Edit: Numbers 5:11-31.
So why would an all powerful being give a description of how a priest comes up with an elixir that can perform an abortion? So god condones abortion in the bible. So how can any abrahamic religion be against abortion? These are all things I personally read in the bible that lead to me walking away from religion. It still baffles me how anyone else can read these things for themselves and decide to categorically ignore these massive contradictions.
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I have to disagree. Once I’m dead, I’m dead… nothing I say or do can affect me any more so people can do what the f*** they like with my earthly remains. If something that was once me, can save someone else’s life (as long as they’re not a right-wing f***) then that’s good.
UK Atheist
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You’re not disagreeing, since that is your choice.
This is itself a choice you get to make.
Feelings do not negate the fact that it is murdering innocent lives for selfishness and hedonism.
and true understanding of biology is that when you have sex the potential of an egg and sperm coming together happens and that is the choice being made. Lack of sexual control does not amount to freedom to murder. it is abhorrent that a person that is sentient doesn’t care about truth and the consequences of their choices and biology and ends the life in the womb.
you are talking pseudo-reality where there are no consequences in life. if you jump into a fire you will get burnt.
Keep in mind that no common method of birth control is 100% effective. Also keep in mind that many states want to outlaw abortion even in cases of rape or incest.
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- It’s not murder, religions just want it to be made illegal.
- A person has the right to control over their own body, their reasons are none of your business.
- A slug is an innocent life, so again your criteria is a poorly reasoned and irrational false equivalence, one assumes you;d not be bothered about killing a slug?Though you seem keen to avoid addressing your fallacy.
- Since a blastocyst or even later stage abortions of a developing foetus involve an insentient clump of cells, the word innocent is meaningless. A tree is innocent and alive, are you suggesting they should not be harmed because of this?
Straw man fallacy, no one has said otherwise, nor has anyone disputed this fact. Again you are relentlessly irrational.
- It’s not a lack of control, that’s your subjective belief.
- By definition it’s not murder, if it is not unlawful.
- It’s a clump of insentient cells, so calling it human is again a false equivalence.
- Not that I care, since it is still part of a woman’s body.
You should find your views abhorrent then clearly. Since I have rarely anyone so closed minded, who cares nothing about objective truth.
Another straw man fallacy, who are you to claim what another person thinks about their choices? Nonetheless it is their choice how their bodies are used.
So what? calling it life is the same false equivalence fallacy, you have also ignored the fact that denying abortions will inevitably end the life a fully sentient woman at some point. So it’s rank hypocrisy as well.
No, you are simply making up straw man claims for others, based on your subjective beliefs in unevidenced archaic superstition.
A rather stupid analogy, and again another of your false equivalence fallacies. If a woman becomes pregnant whatever the reason, she should be free to decide if she wishes to stay pregnant, and again whatever her reason(s).
If you don’t like abortions then don’t have one, but stop trying to force your subjective superstitious beliefs onto others.
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This is a question for only @WhoAreYou
Are you also anti-choice when
- Not aborting will kill the pregnant woman (e.g. ectopic pregnancy)
- A zygote is present due to rape
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We can add, the rape of a child by incest to that list. Lets see his faux morality dodge that one.
Please explain what brutal cases of rape has to do with the victim’s hedonism. In severe cases, the trauma from rape, with a resulting pregnancy on top, can drive the victim to suicide, thereby killing both the mother and the potential child. Please explain what allowing a person to avoid committing suicide has to do with selfishness.
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Unless they’re your feelings of course, which you want to force onto others.
Why a woman seeks a termination is her business, how you feel about it is your problem.
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