"Spiritual" Delusion

This might be true if people had their own reality. They don’t. A subjective perspective of reality will never top that reality which is empirically objective, testable, and repeatable, and observable. Our sneses are not to be trusted, were they, we would still all be flat-earthers afraid of falling off the edge of the world.

Independent verification based on sound scientific principles, plays a major role in establishing what we should or should not accept as reality.

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I have been down that road in my sordid past. I have done pot, LSD, mushrooms, many other mind-altering drugs, cocaine, even heroin. Name it, I have probably done it.

My advice to anyone and everyone is not to do it, life is better sober and with a clear head.

Getting high can be fun, but the bottom line is that it fucks you up. It does not solve anything. In fact it may make things much worse. The only positive thing I can say about pot is that it does have medicinal qualities, and it may help one get to sleep.

By choice I have not touched alcohol for over three years. By choice I have not smoked any pot for the last three months. I will probably smoke a joint or three thousand in the future, but it is not to achieve a better understanding of anything, it is to fuck me up.


I’m with David. I can’t think of a drug outside of PCP, that I have not tried. I hated most of them. Lucky me I guess. On the other hand, the hallucinogens are great. I’ve not done anything or been high in 25 years. No reason to. And I just don’t drink much because I don’t like alcohol much,.

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Not to be disagreeable, but this can only be an “absolute” if the perceiver is unaware of the flexibility of reality as related to one’s overall definition(s) of reality. If one has at least attempted to self-define reality, then there is at least the possibility that an over-riding mechanism for determining the relevance of one’s perceptions may exist. Without this self examination and introspection, the possibility of an over-riding “filter” becomes far less likely.
Of course this begs this question of the feasibility of objectivity as it relates to oneself. This is where the independent verification tool comes in to play.
Indeed “Perception is reality” is demonstrably true in many instances and can be a serious obstacle to overall awareness.

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Oh, lordy. :roll_eyes: The ONE TIME I’m trying to be a smart-ass, and everybody takes me seriously. (Because we all know I’m rarely - if ever - a smart-ass or sarcastic.)

On one hand, it’s good that you two explained this for those who do not understand that statement. Good stuff. On the other hand, I just tossed that out there with all the other psychobabble simply to make a point in jest. Okay, I admit, hell if I know what point I was trying to make. But it was a small part of an attempt at a bigger sphere of humor. Apparently, though, I just plain SUCK at being a funny sarcastic smart-ass. Well, I never would have known if I didn’t try. Fine!.. (headed toward break room)… COG!!! Where the hell are the cookies?!? I’m going to my room to contemplate my existence!


I knew you were being sarcastic with your list - pretty obvious BUT I just wanted to focus on the one point because changing my standard for evidence and information changed the “internal story” which changed “perception”.


Oh, gee. This is getting complicated. Uh, so, uh, the EXTERNAL perception is controlled by the INTERNAL process of sorting and interpreting EXTERNAL input, thereby allowing the INTERNAL processing parameters to be altered to a degree that redefines the EXTERNAL input in such a way as to cause the INTERNAL output to enhance EXTERNAL perceptions, and therefore change the INTERNAL story. Okay… I think I’ve got it.

Lol :joy:

An example. As a JW:

  • all religions NOT JW (objective, they exist in reality)
  • are “eating from the table of demons” (subjective interpretation of scripture - creates internal story)
  • INTERNAL story when meeting or interacting with other religious people? “They don’t have the Truth; they deserve to die at Armageddon; they worship demons; “I’m so lucky to be right, serve the True God and will do my best to save them!”


  • all religions (objective, they exist in reality)
  • MAKE CLAIMS based on subjective interpretations (objective)
  • Ask for DEMONSTRABLE, Evidence for claims

*INTERNAL story - :woman_shrugging:t2: Couldn’t give a shit UNTIL their “claims” start interfering in social laws and human rights.


Wait, that was sarcasm? I have heard of that, but, I uh don’t think I have ever really seen it used or actually heard it. It is kinda mean don’t you think? Tricking people like that?
I would certainly never consider employing such tactics as a bastion ( or is that bastard) of seriousness.
In your session of contemplation, do not neglect your navel in the process.

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Uh oh…now I am confused. So which came first, your “story” or your “perception”? And what of your perception of your story? Or your story about your perception? Chicken or egg? 😵‍💫

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Oh, good. Glad I’m not the only one stuck in a program loop over that one. I’ve already had to reset my circuits three times. Damn you, White! :confounded::dizzy_face::confounded:

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From birth??? The story. I was raised religious and the adults around me told me “what to believe” (story).

As an adult, I’m free to change it based on new information and standards I set for that information.


Oh, okay! Phew! Thank you! Now I can turn off the auto-reset.

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:grimacing: thanks for the answer. Humbly I must admit a bit of tongue-in-cheek in my question. ( could not have been sarcasm as I never indulge in such meanness).

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The “why” is easy to understand. It’s a combination of several things. People are indoctrinated in this shit literally from birth. It’s drummed into their heads by parents at home and ministers (and others) at church and “Sunday school”. It’s presented as absolute fact and you’re not encouraged to think critically about any of it, but to just accept it verbatim and without question. Anyone questioning any of it is subjected to peer pressure from family and friends, including the ultimate threat: “You’ll go to hell!”

We’re surrounded by religious references on TV, in the movies, in books, and even on money (in the U.S.) Even here in liberal California I’m surrounded by churches and a common parting greeting is “god bless!”. Politicians fall all over themselves claiming what a good christian they are. As bad as it is here, I imagine it’s much worse in bible belt states.


I can enthusiastically confirm that to be true!

Or you could just say… “Believing is seeing.” Simpler still 'Change your mind and you change the world." (Oracle of Delphi - so I have been told.)

When I was into essoteric thought I always liked; “You are what you eat.”

Physically - eat healthy stay healthy

Emotionally - Too much of anything is probalby not good for perception.

Intellectually - Garbage in and garbage out.

I once met with a group of attorneys and talked about temperament types and jury selection. (Your choice of music says a lot about you. So do bumper stickers on your car.)
Question #1: How important is Christmas to you?: LOL - If you are the defense the only answer you ever want to hear is, ‘It’s not. I don’t care much for holidays.’ “It’s not. I’m a JW,” would be a horrible reply.

You can not ask, “Are you religious.” You can ask, “Do you have a bumper sticker on your car and what does it say?” or “If you had a bumper sticker on your car, what would it say?”

Perception is ‘NOT’ demonstrably true. It is in fact, “Demonstrably False in All Cases.” Our senses are limited and can not take in all aspects of the reality around us. Our opinions are frequently lacking the objectivity or information required to make a better or more informed decision. The fact of the matter is that we pretty much just do the best we can. And the rest is “Confirmation Bias.” We think we are getting everything right and functioning well because we remember the hits and simply forget the misses.


This may be a stock question for the process, as it’s been used on me during jury selection.

My answer was that the text of a sticker on a bumper is totally immaterial, as we can’t actually see the bumpers of modern cars, only the thin plastic covers over each end of the car.

Perception vs. reality, indeed.

I was ironically tossed to grand jury duty, where a state’s attorney can mold and isolate perception more handily than anywhere else.

It’s a funny old world.

And sadly that is what becomes the accepted reality in that courtroom.

That makes me think of Dunning-Kruger effect. I see it all the time with bad mechanics. Perceptually they seem to put themselves above others because of their position. They put a new part into a machine improperly, it runs for a couple months then dies. They blame the part or the age of the machine. There’s always some reason it’s not their fault, because they are a self proclaimed great mechanic. Unless someone tells him he is installing the part wrong, how would he ever know if someone doesn’t tell him? He can’t know what he doesn’t know.