Spiritual and Dimensional Philosophies

Debate Room
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Hi guys, I want to talk about the philosophy of spatial dimensions and the spiritual realm. It’s a bit of a complex idea that I’ve been ruminating on, so I’ll walk you through it.

Spatial dimensions are axes of space that we can move through like the x, y, and z axis that we can move through.

Let’s go on a journey of dimensions by imagining a 3D space (as we are familiar with it).

Existence in Zero Dimension: Zero Dimension is just an infinitesimally small point within a 3D space. A person within a zero Dimensional space is static and he would believe he’s alone in the whole universe. Words like velocity, distance, Area, Volume or Space would be nonsensical to him.

Existence in One Dimension: One Dimension is an assembly of infinitely large numbers of zero dimensions in a straight line. A person within a one dimensional space within a 3D space is unaware of the fact that he’s in a 3D space. It is impossible for him to know if he’s in the X or y or z directions as these are meaningless to him. Measurements of distance, speed make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of area or volume or space. You will find it difficult to convince him that it is possible to have a higher dimension than 1D.

The paradox: even when he is seen from the 3D space as alined in x or y or xz directions, it is oblivious to him!

Existence in Two Dimensions: a Two Dimensional space is an assembly of infinitely large numbers of one dimensions in a straight line stacked on upon the other. A person within a Two dimensional space within a 3D space is unaware of the fact that he’s in a 3D space. It is impossible for him to know if he’s in the xy or yz or xz planes as these are meaningless to him.

Measurements of area, displacement, velocity, volume, area density make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of area or volume or height. You will find it difficult to convince him that it is possible to have a higher dimension than 2D.

The Paradox: When an object is placed in a closed loop, he believes that it is scientifically impossible to bring out the object from within the loop without breaking the loop. Of course, those of us who live within the 3D space will laugh at his folly. When such a feat is done before him by someone in the 3rd dimension, he concludes that it must be a miracle

Existence in Three Dimensions: A Three Dimensional space is an assembly of infinitely large numbers of Two dimensions stacked on upon the other. A person within a Three dimensional space within a 4D space is unaware of the fact that he’s in a 4D space. It is impossible for him to know if he’s in the xyza or xyzb or xyzd volumes as these are meaningless to him.

Measurements of area or volume or height, displacement, velocity, volume, area density make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of anything outside the 3D.

Just as the person in the 1D or 2D space, You will find it difficult to convince him that it is possible to have a higher dimension than 3D!

Again a paradox: When an object is placed in a closed volume, he believes that it is scientifically impossible to bring out the object from within the volume without breaking the volume. Of course, those who live within the 4D space will laugh at his folly. When such a feat is done before him by someone in the 4th dimension, he concludes that it must be a miracle

Bringing this all together now…

Christians have always spoken about God, Angels, Demons and the Spiritual Realm which in this case is at dimensions higher than 3 dimensions. We cannot tell if their dimensions is the 4th or 5th or 6th…1000th.

Atheists understandably think that any dimension higher than 3D is a figment of imagination.

Note: Time is NOT a dimension: time is a measure of intervals between events in 1D, 2D, 3D , 4D space.

So now, these are the questions

  1. Is it reasonable to conclude unequivocally that higher dimensions than 3D do NOT exist in the Universe?

  2. What kind of experiments would you advise scientists in the 2D world conduct to prove the existence of the 3D space?

  3. Let’s assume that by some Stroke of massive intelligence, scientists in the 2D space have perfect scientific knowledge of their space, would this knowledge be adequate in the 3D space?

  4. We know that a person in a higher dimension can interact with those in the lower dimensions: is the converse possible?

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Welcome, @X0B35 .

To kick things off…

An atheist is someone who remains unconvinced that gods exist because there hasn’t been an argument made by a believer that could, with any convincing evidence, lead us to believe they do.

That’s it, and that’s all.

Right, now on with the rest of the show.

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What makes you think spatial dimensions have anything to do with anything called ‘Spiritual;’ Right off the bat you are beginning with a faulty definition.

I imagine everyone on the site is familiar with ‘Flatland.’ Hopefully you are going to get someplace interesting.,
\

Have you ever seen a person in 1D space? Whatever it was, we would not call it a person.

Do you have an original thought? I don’t need a rehashing of 'Flatland."

Damn… let’s hope so.

Demonstrate the connection between the hypothetical 4 dimensions and anything at all called ‘spirit.’

No. Atheists are people that do not believe in God or gods. It’s scientists that regard string theory as basically useless. And, it is other scientists trying to demonstrate its utility. (Hint: It’s a hypothesis and not actually a theory.)

It’s not actually the interval itself but rather how we measure the interval. As we get new information, our methods of measurement change.

You can’t conclude anything from a hypothetrical construct that begins with undefined terms and something called spirituality that is an equivocation error of dimensions…

The existence of higher dimensions is a topic of ongoing research and debate in the physics and mathematics communities. While there is some evidence to suggest the existence of higher dimensions, such as in theories like string theory and Kaluza-Klein theory, it is important to note that there is currently no definitive proof. This is an athest forum and not a physics forum… At the same time we have people around here much sharper than me. I am sure they will pin you down on your inane assertions better than me.

We know of no such thing. You are way out of your element on this site. Demonstrate that anythiing at all called ‘Spirit’ exists in a higher dimension.

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  1. It is indeed NOT reasonable to conclude anything about them without verifiable demonstrations that these dimensions do/not exist.
  2. Why, as a non-scientist, would I advise a scientist to do anything in their line of work?
  3. Are there scientists that exist in only two dimensions? How do you come by this information? Why do you think this?
  4. How do ‘we’ know this? Who is this ‘we’? Are you able to demonstrate that there is a ‘person’ that exists in a dimension in addition to the ones in which we exist?

Your postulations are problematic with more holes in them than Albert Hall. You may want to get some more education and rethink it all.

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If your maths is sound then why haven’t you published this? Leaving aside your fourth dimension is pure speculation at this point, can you demonstrate any objective evidence that any deity, demons or angels are even possible? Otherwise all I see is a an appeal to unevidenced mystery based on an unevidenced hypothetical realm.

Nope, that’s not remotely what atheism means, it is solely the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, beyond that you have no way of knowing what an atheist does or does not believe until they tell you.

It is reasonable and rational to disbelieve your claim they do, until you demonstrate sufficient objective evidence to support it. Go get your stuff published in worthy peer reviewed scientific journal, but beyond that claim the deity angels and demons would remain unevidenced superstition even then.

I am dubious that we do, you are speculating, and I see no connection whatsoever between your speculation about a 4th dimensions and unevidenced superstition like deities demons and angels.

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Howdy, X0B35! Welcome aboard the AR. Just to let you know real quick, if you keep making statements like that around here, you’re gonna have your hands full. Just a little friendly advice. Anyway, back to dimensions…

Hey, listen, if it helps you any, I happen to know for a fact there is a 5th Dimension. Not kidding. I was up up and away in a beautiful balloon when the wind blew me east toward the dawn. I think it was around the age of Aquarius, if I remember coreectly. Now, I confess, I didn’t actually SEE the 5th Dimension, but I did HEAR it. The sound was transmitted over a little transistor radio I had in the balloon with me. And it was a very distinct sound. No doubt in my mind it was the 5th Dimension I heard. Hope that helps you a bit.

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Hmm…well I hate to diminish your dementia derived dimensional diatribe with distracting dialog, but…
There is a sixth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space, and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow – between man’s grasp and his reach; between science and superstition; between the pit of his fears and the sunlight of his knowledge.
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Edit (heading out to picnic and rest from lack of sleep)

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Far out, man… x is y and y is z. 1D through 4D is a drag.

Let the sun shine in, brothers and sisters.

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Why not? You managed to comprehend it, why can’t someone else?

In classical physics that is true, in modern physics that isn’t true; SR demands this.

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Someone was high on monkey farts.

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Yikes. Quite busy atm, but I’ll be sure to reply soon.

But before then, I should point out here that I also see higher dimensions in other perspective: I don’t claim my position is the reality, but it helps to explain the supernatural in natural point of view

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lol I don’t see how. Wouldn’t it just be simpler for you to demonstrate miracles the way Jesus promised in John 14:12, Matthew 17:20, Mark 16:18 so that you can demonstrate the existence of your god? Yes? No?

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Whom does it help? Certainly not me!

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Uh, I was shaving with Occam’s razor when I read this and damn nearly cut myself…continuing to use the same device, I have to wonder who would be most likely to experience such a high…??

Edit for fresh air

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Might be helpful:
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Can you provide evidence of anything supernatural? Not an unexplained event but actual existence of something called supernatural.

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Well, naturally I would be inclined to say no, but from a naturalistic point of view, one could merely view natural explanations as a “reverse barometer” for the supernatural. In other words, supernatural is everything that the natural is not! See? Simple…

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A couple of things here

  1. I think you guys have started with a big wrong foot. Start with dimensions at 3D and lower. This we can comprehend very well. It’s not all about spirits. Your objective is not to attack dimensions greater that 3 without even looking at dimensions of 3 and below.

  2. When I say a person in 1D or 2D or 3D, I do not mean a literal person. In technical terms, it just means “an Observer”. The observer is a hypothetical person who may be anything from dot, to line, to circle, to sphere.

  3. If you were an observer in a 1D world, how will you view your environment? Would you be able to even visualise shapes like circle or rectangle?
    How about if you are an observer in a 2D space: you will certainly be able to see and describe other 2 D shapes. Will you be able to comprehend what a sphere is even when it is superimposed on your 2D space? Forget about 4D or higher or the spiritual for now.

On the definition of Atheists as “people who lack a belief in gods” I find the definition ridiculous (even though it seems to be a standard definition “big and important” atheists have adopted). Why?In my opinion, only babies, an animal or a person with an exceptionally low IQ can lack a belief on a matter.

Before you crucify me, let me ask you these questions. A categorical YES or NO coupled with your reasons will suffice.

  1. Can a dog be said to lack a belief in a Deity?

  2. Is it true that babies lack a belief in any deity?
    Why?

It takes a total lack of opinion, knowledge and comprehension of a fact, idea or issue for a person to successfully lack a belief in anything.

What you have as Atheist is NOT a lack of Belief, but a personal choice based on reason to REJECT a proposed thing, fact, idea or issue in relation to deities.

I do not lack a belief in Superman or Spiderman , HOWEVER, by reason I have come to an understanding that Superman and Spiderman are inventions by American Authors in comics and lately in movies for entertainment purposes all based on fiction.

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so we define something by what it is not? Supernatural is not an elephant, it’s not a TV, It’;s not a bottle, it’s not a spoon, it’s not a tube of toothpaste, it’s not a table, it’s not a plate of spaghetti, it’s not a penguin, it’s not an aluminum can, it’s not a computer mouse, it’s not a chemical on the periodic table, it’s not a rabbit, it’s not a Harry Potter Book." Wow! Things are beginning to clear up. It’s not the number 3. It’s not a fingernail, it’s not a guitar, it’s not a horse or a horse race, it’s not an emotion, it’s not a brain, it’s not a covid mask, it’s not a flashlight. We should be able to corner this thing and figure out exactly what it is in another billion years.

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