Secularism vs. Religiosity in Politics

The U.S. is at risk of being overrun by religiosity in government with what is called Xtian Nationalism. In my estimation, the biggest dangers are ignoring the issue and not raising up voices against it.
Here’s a story that caught my attention. And, frustratingly, the many stories like this are woefully underreported by news media.
Why aren’t more folks sounding an alarm bell about this sort of stuff? Is it complacency? Laziness? Ignorance?


You didn’t mention fear. Fearfulness has taken over the US whether its fear of immigrants, fear of not having enough money, enough food, clean water, or fear of becoming homeless. Fearful people look for protection and religions are always there with, believe in him, her or it and you will at least be taken care of in the next life.


Welcome @Canuk to the board! Look forward to your posts and getting to know you better. :smiley:

Because Americans–as a group–don’t value real education or diversity. We are the wealthiest nation on Earth and–as a consequence–are like spoiled children who have been enabled our whole lives.

I don’t say that all citizens of my country are like this (I like to believe that I am not), but many are.

In places like Europe and Asia, many nations are neighbors with each other and international travel is common. Many Europeans (for example) speak more than one language, and seem to have a working knowledge of other customs and different points of view.

Not so much here, although I see it changing because of the Internet.

With this insularity, there is less diversity of thought and opinion, and a religion/culture like Christian Nationalism has rich ground to grow in with ignorance as a fertilizer.

As an example of our backwardness, consider that there has been much more effort to police bathroom use, to ban books, and to prohibit drag shows instead of putting this same effort into banning assault rifles (like the AR-15) and protecting our children in schools from mass shootings.

The ray of hope is (in my mind) the younger generation.

Religiosity has been drastically declining in my country because of the Internet, as I believe that the Internet fills a similar niche that international travel does in Europe, and people who are educated and informed seem to place less stock in religion.

Or this is how I see it.

If you guys disagree with me, please let me know.

Some years ago I decided that to make understanding politics easier I would mentally put humans in two camps. I realized of course that this would lead to grossly over generalizing and would never stand up to any scrutiny. In one camp I put those people who believed that the rights of the individual were paramount and in the other were those that valued the collective over the individual. To the extent that this division was a spectrum there were those that were a bit of both but since the ability to hold both views meant that they could compromise they were not the folks that caused problems to the body politic. I noticed that individualists were more likely to flourish in capitalist economies where the belief that through hard work everyone can succeed, whereas collectivists were more likely to construct socialist economies with well developed safety nets. One other aspect is that first past the post as a method for choosing political leaders is more likely found in countries where individualist dominate. Proportional Representation and multi parties elections happen more in collectivist states. Obviously dictatorships and one party states are in a league of their own. I think we can safely categorize the US as an individualist state and as such people are consumed with getting ahead rather than planning ahead. If you believe that business can do everything better than government then you will be always racing to the bottom whether in education, healthcare, etc. In short I don’t think Americans are spoiled children but rather people who have bought the lie that they are the best country in the world in whatever metric one chooses to measure it by.

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That ban will be a hard nut to crack in any case, IMHO.

Mix the right of gun ownership being baked into the U.S. Constitution with fantasies of power, being prepared for a showdown with a gun toting bad guy, and fear that the government will reveal itself as a fascist, globalist tyranny that will one day need rebelled against, and this is the result when it comes to policy discussion about guns.

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Please note that I’m not anti-gun . . . I’m just anti-assault rifle and anti-flamethrower.

I do think that reasonable limits on gun ownership is different from people owning AR-15’s, AK-47’s, Thompson submachine guns, etc…

Many gun owners throw out the slippery slope, which means (in their minds, or whatever they have that passes for a mind) that if we ban assault rifles now . . . then every single type of firearm will be banned in the future.

This is a perfect example of the slippery slope fallacy.

Probably 99.99% of all civilian needs for a firearm can be handled by a 14 round pistol, a pump shotgun, a bolt action .22 rimfire, a medium caliber bolt action rifle, a large bore 6 shot revolver, and a heavy caliber bolt action rifle . . . with an option for lever action and single shot break open rifles.

This cross section of guns takes care of pests, small game, medium game, large game (like moose and brown bear in Alaska), it covers self-defense against home invaders, car jackers, and street thugs, and it covers survival emergencies.

In a survival situation (such as the total collapse of society), these guns give a person the capability to ambush and take out an enemy so that one may confiscate and use the enemy’s guns.

The most lethal sniper in recent history took out over 250 enemy combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan with nothing more than a 'scoped bolt action rifle . . . and he was up against machine guns, RPG rocket launchers, and AK-47’s.

If a survivalist doesn’t have the creativity and imagination to survive with the above firearms, than an AR-15 won’t help him (or her) anyway.


The above flamethrower is not–technically–a firearm, and can be purchased by any crazy person who wants one.

The regulars here, of course, are familiar with my referring frequently to this document:

Which contains a rigorous exposition of the venomous nature of religiosity, and cited the USA as an exemplar of that phenomenon even before the recent recrudescent and florid metastatising of the Christofascist malignancy.

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Thanks for posting the article it really helped me understand your over the top hyperbole.


Pointing out facts isn’t “hyperbole”.


I’m assuming you’re Canadian (based on your name, although I’ve usually seen it spelled canuck–correct me if I’m wrong), so you may not know how bad the situation is here in the U.S. with respect to the christian nationalists and their efforts to co-opt the government in as many ways as they can. With the Supreme Court packed with six (out of nine) conservative Catholics, we’ve seen plenty of decisions recently that have favored religious organizations at the expense of the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. I see that pace accelerating in the future, especially if Trump is elected this November.

So no, Calilasseia’s article is not over the top. Not even close.


Of the nine, five were appointed by Presidents who lost the popular vote.


Hi Soda Ant Actually I am a naturalized Canadian. My parents moved the family to the centre of BC from Utah in 1963. A month and a bit after we arrived JFK was shot. I should add I am a political junkie. As to my claim that Calillasia was engaging in hyberbole that was before I learned to fully appreciate his style of writing. Providing he is taking someone else apart and not me or at least thats what I thought at the time. TinMan set me straight.
The religious right do pose a danger to Democracies all over the world, especially in the US. In my opinion what makes them especially dangerous is that they don’t care a whit for the long view because they believe in an apocalyptic Jesus. It was quite in fashion then as it is now to look at all the things that were wrong with the world, conclude they were all beyond your control and to hand the problem off to god who would set things straight. Since everything is in gods hands then it stands to reason that one should get oneself and the world ready for the coming of the lord whether they want to or not. When you couple that belief with their absolute transactional way of operating in the world you can only conclude that not only are they batshit crazy but that they have checked their morality at the door labeled the ends do justify the means. How else can an upstanding, god fearing church lady excuse and support that orange lizard donald trump bragging about grabbing women’s pussy. And now he has been convicted of sexual assault which would give even those with a passing acquaintance of morality reason to pause but it’s OK because he is going to end abortions. Abortions bad trump good no matter what he does. Yep America is in trouble but these scum bags from the religious right are showing up in many countries all holding hands with their like minded nazi friends. Cheers


Damn, my brain sometimes distracts my reading by substituting random words with strange alternatives that it invents on the fly. I read this as “Cathoholics”, and had to back up and read it again to comprehend what you were talking about. But come to think about it, I find this new word strangely appropriate, given the context.