That’s the problem i can’t ask these questions without someone thinking a religion has to be created from it.
Where is the concept of infinity found if not in imagination.
Because something changed my life that had nothing to do with morality.
Well then i know alot atheist preachers
I’m asking nicely…would you please close the door?
OK what? Mine was a heart attack followed by a quadruple bypass that my wife said took 10 hours. I quit smoking and changed my diet and in bumping up against the reality of mortality I gained a better appreciation for life. Never once did I blame god or any diety. I accepted 100% of the responsibility for the heart attack and because of that I also knew that the changes I would have to make were within my control to make. So @TheChristianAtheist I showed you mine you show me yours.
Aren’t you @TheChristianAtheist, asking why shouldn’t god wipe out the world he created and by implication start again? It is possible that I misconstrued this deflection but you do seem to have a yen for not making clear statements and instead answering questions with questions which is no answer at all but rather an obvious attempt to steer the conversation away from any examination of whether god exists outside our imagination.
So far you got nothing but boring assertions which you make but refuse to back up. Not only can you not explain what you imagine your god to be but you ask us to. “Something changed my life”, implication: a force greater than yourself and external to yourself. You won’t even name this as god even though the implication is there nor will you even describe the event and explain why the change it evoked was something powerful. Was it a stroke or perhaps your girlfriend dumped you or you might have slipped on one of @Cognostic bananas or one of @Sheldon fallacies - no wait you’ve definitely tripped on more than one of those. The intellectual dishonesty in your approach is stunning.
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you might have slipped on one of @Cognostic bananas
They can be rather slick…especially when sprinkled with droppings…
Holy shit… wat a lot of nothing…
At this moment there are over 5,000 gods on the planet that are being worshiped by humanity. NONE OF THEM, not one, has enough evidential support, whether it actually exists or not (some cultures have tree and alligator gods), to be considered a hypothesis. There is no god hypothesis.
HYPOTHESIS: A hypothesis is an idea or proposition that can be tested by observations or experiments, about the natural world. In order to be considered scientific, hypotheses are subject to scientific evaluation and must be falsifiable, which means that they are worded in such a way that they can be demonstrated to be incorrect. There is nothing like this in the gods of the world.
Again you are shifting the burden of proof. No one needs to provide evidence for your god to you. People have more important things to do than run about the world trying to debunk every stupid claim some charlatan has made. “The person making the claim has the burden of proof.” If the evidence isn’t there, there is no good reason to believe. No one needs to go about the world debunking god claims. (God Claims None have made it to the status of hypothesis.)
[quote=“TheChristianAtheist, post:50, topic:5098”]
Doesn’t hurt to test the hypothesis does it? [/quote]
Does it hurt? YES. It is a waste of time, energy, money, and life.
First, you are assuming that something has not already been done. I have had conversations with thousands of believers in my life. I have heard most of the arguments and things that “HAVE BEEN DONE” ad nauseam. Are you thinking you have said anything new that the folks on this site have not heard before? From the Upanishads to the Bhagavad Gita, The Old Testament to Scientology, and most of what falls in between I have personally looked. Their assertions have been evaluated by people far smarter than me throughout history. NONE hold up against critical inquiry. NONE…
Next: you completely avoided the question… All you wrote was a bunch of slippery bullshit., So before I mention the burden of proof again
You failed to respond to the question,. Please do so.,
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Since you must fucking know. I was violently raped as a child by both of my parents. My “reality” has been nothing but a torrent of bullshit from the start. Left to starve and fend for myself. Addicted to alcohol and drugs. Beaten by my own brother. Hated by the rest of my family. Always the outcast in school because of the mental fucking trauma. I would gladly trade all the shit ive been through for a fucking heart attack. I was known as the most likely to kill myself. So much so i was asked by a close friend of what the best way to do it would be, to which i replied, a shotgun in the mouth and straight through the dome. Through the dome he did. In front his three year old girl. The church could do nothing to help me. The system could nothing to help me. All that I was told is that other people have it worse. Like thats some sort fucking consolation. Why wont you let me die? He wouldn’t let me do it. I surrendered my life to him. The feeling of which i will share none of you jackasses. Fuck you anti-religious bigots and the cue cards you use to respond to people instantly instead of just fucking listening. Your no different than the church. @Sheldon This whole life is a fucking fallacy.
It’s a shame you have not learned to make peace with yourself. The events in our lives can indeed be unfortunate but the idea that those events must necessarily shape who we are in a specific way is complete bullshit. Blaming your current situation on your past is simply a way of victimizing yourself, pretending that the world was specifically unfair to you, and thinking you are owed some sort of sympathy for the past you have endured. NONE OF THIS IS TRUE.
In fact, you are a hypocritical asshole sitting at a computer with a full belly while people all over the world starve and endure horrors the likes of which you can’t even imagine. YOU’RE NOT SPECIAL. Your past sufferings do not make you special. You deserve no special treatment because of them. You are whole and complete and capable of making decisions that affect your life. If you don’t like the way it is turning out. Make different decisions.
Finally!
Damn! How hard was that! At least we can have a fucking real conversation now.
People do have it worse than you. People on this site have had it worse than you. That is not consolation, that is a fact. Instead of condemning them or saying poo poo to their experiences, why not find out how they pulled themselves out of all the bullshit you find yourself trapped in.
Frankly speaking, it is completely obvious you have never given yourself credit for your own survival. You have failed to realize your own strength. You have failed to see that people in situations like the situation you have found yourself in, do the exact same shit you are doing. Everything from blaming the world to turning to Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, or whatever flavor of god you prefer. There is nothing new here. You have yet to learn to embrace who you are.
Imagine yourself as a child of ten. That child comes to you and says exactly what you have said to us. What are you going to tell the child? You are a sinner, you are worthless, you are filth and so is this world, come to Jesus? (Come to Jesus and your life will be better after your dead?) Or can you think of a better answer?
Shitty things happen in this world. That is a fact. Some people don’t let the shitty things hold them down and some people do? Which are you going to be?
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That’s all horrible. I’m so sorry you’ve had to endure it. Others here have endured horrific things too.
That shitty stuff happens to people has nothing to do with the responses you’ve gotten for what you’ve written
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Yes, it’s called whataboutism.
Then why did you claim we need a deity to replace “politics and laws that cant be rightly enforced”?
Here:
That’s a new claim that simply moves the goal posts with semantics, I ask again why does creating a deity (as you suggested we need to do) do this?
No idea what that means, read it 4 times? Your profile says theist, you have come to an atheist debate forum, you are reeling off claims about a deity, you need to properly and objectively demonstrate evidence a deity exists or is even possible for those bare claims to have any meaning.
And as such it carries a burden of proof, and we’re still waiting for you to attempt meeting that.
Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive, if you have no evidence then your claims are meaningless, you might as well be telling us how you believe mermaids might smell.
You introduced an analogy that you now assert has no significance, so there is nothing to miss, and it’s for you to offer cogent arguments, not for others to decipher your contradictory vapid and cryptic claims.
And you thought this subjective unevidenced claim was apropos to a request that you objectively evidence a deity you keep making unevidenced assertions about?
I think you are, you have done so right there, but I am starting to see the futility of asking you to objectively evidence your assertions.
So you can meet the epistemological burden of proof that demonstrates no deity exists then? Otherwise I fail to see how anyone can justify such a claim. I am an atheist and I’d not make a sweeping generic absolute claim like that.
I can read, reasonably well.
Then maybe a debate forum is not the place to post it, as that is exactly what one would expect in a debate.
This is a public debate forum, as such anyone has the right to subject the posts and claims of others to critical scrutiny.
How would I know that exactly? If you have no evidence to support your theistic belief, then why do you hold it, and why would you bring it to an atheist debate forum?
What a spectacularly stupid analogy. You need to understand you have come to a public debate forum, one that is predominantly atheistic, though not exclusively, so the idea you can reel off claims, and no one will ask you to justify and evidence them is just absurd. If you want to preach then I can only suggest you either start a blog or find a pulpit, as that is not what a debate forum is for.
Who has said otherwise? It’s not your beliefs that are the main issue here, it is the fact you are preaching at us, and don’t want to participate in debate. Though even what you believe is unclear at this point, as you seem to be suggesting you are both a theist and an atheist, and they’re mutually exclusive by definition.
That’s a straw man fallacy, since I made no such assertion. I merely asked that you demonstrate some objective evidence for your beliefs, and the claims you’re making, something beyond bare assertions. I never mentioned proving anything.
I have no idea what you’re doing here, but I am here to debating claims, currently those are yours as they are bizarrely cryptic, sometimes contradictory, and wholly unsupported by any objective evidence.
The first sentence is gibberish? You also didn’t address my question at all, yet again, or the logical fallacy you obviously used by implying atheists are any less able to evaluate evidence for a deity than theists, here:
Why would they be any less able to recognise evidence than theists?
What deity? What objective evidence fo you have it exists or is even possible, and why do you think this? Dear oh dear you are just reeling off unevidenced assertions in tandem?
Or you could address this latest erroneous and unevidenced claim, rather than deflecting my question again with more whataboutism?
I will post as and when I am minded to, and stop telling me what I do and do not know. You made the claim, everyone has the right to ask you to evidence it. If you can’t just say so, but of course that makes your claims about deities meaningless, as I already pointed out, you might as well be telling us how unicorns should be cared for.
If you had objective evidence I think it is reasonable to imagine you would present it, but either way I will ask whatever i feel is apropos in response to endless and unevidenced assertions about deities. If you want to preach find a pulpit, this is a debate forum.
Indeed not, but then nor do I champ…
Now what objective evidence (if any) can you demonstrate that any deity exists or is even possible?
Nothing you have said goes beyond subjective unevidenced assertion, and wild speculatory hypotheticals either.
I don’t think religion means what you think it does, I can only suggest you Google the word, then Google the definition of theism, and learn why they are broadly speaking synonymous.
Can I get a hallelujah?
Well if that is true then you have my condolences, but this is a debate forum, and hardly the place to help people find relief from trauma, since beliefs voiced here are subjected to critical scrutiny.
And no, life is not a logical fallacy. that makes no sense even as a metaphor.
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I am inclined to agree with Cog here, that it is a shame that you have not made peace with who you are.
The past events that we tend to think are responsible for our current circumstances are largely so to the degree that we empower them.
If you continue to assign responsibility for who you are to past events, then you are perpetuating the power you have granted to those things. When we experience trauma at an early age we tend to grant far more power than when we are older.
Although wrinkles are not wisdom, introspection and self-awareness generally do not occur at a young age.
The fact of your continued existence demonstrates your power to persevere.
You made the choice to “surrender” your life, but to whom did you surrender?
An invisible undetectable force or being, external to yourself, or to the inner survival prioritizing self?
Give yourself credit for recognizing the need to distance and free yourself from the events which apparently are still affecting you.
Not all, but several here have had to acknowledge their own “powerlessness” over external circumstances. The key is that the acceptance of this along with acknowledgement that control is mostly an illusion, can be a liberating process which may lead to a greater peace.
Congratulations…you have passed the first test by not allowing anything to motivate you to relinquish the greatest thing you possess…life!
As far as any agitation you may be experiencing from responses you have received, this is is a debate forum concerning atheism. Any claims you put forth are subject to the same scrutiny and critiques as are any presented.
If a claim presented is logically or rationally invalid, that will be recognized and challenged, as will be deliberately evasive tactics.
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First let me say that I am very sorry for the things that happened to you as a young person. I am new to this site but not to atheism.
I am so sorry that what ever help you did receive, if any, failed to connect you with your inner strength in a way that allowed you to own it. For now you seem to be drawing that strength from the notion that there is a god in heaven. I will again ask you to consider an alternative possibility. Namely that the strength that allowed you to survive so far has been in you all along.
I have spent most of my working life listening to children tell me about their lives sometimes in words, sometimes in pictures and sometimes in play. One of the things I can say is, that they were all much stronger and more resilient than they thought they were. I believe, although I can’t provide objective evidence 
that the same is true of you. Good Luck
Wait… Those are your droppings??? 
I thought they were chocolate covered raisins! Dammit… No wonder I was having to pick bird seeds out of my teeth. As for the soda, I just passed it down to Cog. So, uh, it’s your choice if you want to get it from him.
Shut up, Cog! Let them figure it out for themselves.
Hell, yeah, I want some candy! What kind you got?
Hey, Metro, quick question, if you don’t mind. Any chance you know the distance between heaven and hell? Granted, I suspect it isn’t a set distance, because of all the variations within the thousands of Christian sects. But what would be a reasonable average distance? Just curious…
Did we ever get that “Good Reason” for believing in god? Did I miss it someplace? I think our last argument was - I had a rough life so I believe in God. Is that it?
i don’t know, I’m bad at geography
Since it is an imaginary realm, mightn’t one just imagine the distance?
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Well you sure went through them like they were…
Edit
I hear tell the plain “white chocolate” ones are best