I am a christian who believes there is a good reason that god has hidden himself. Please,anyone,challenge me on this.
I dont want to change anyone’s beliefs.
I just have thoughts that other christians are not willing to hear.
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Very intellectual comment. Thanks.
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You’re welcome. Now, in what way is your posting not a troll posting?
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I respect your viewpoint. If there is a god. Atheists are closer to knowing that god than any religius bigots.
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That does not make sense. Care to elaborate?
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Sure! How many years do you have? 
Lets do this.
If we were to create a god that fits our world, that maintains the attributes of the bible, What would that look like?
Is that even possible?
Can a “good” god allow evil etc…
Still does not make sense.
A created god is not real, no matter what attributes you invent.
I’ll give you something you want to hear. If you “create” a god that is better than the one the bible interprets to us. You will then have something to say to christians to disprove their beliefs that is in the positive, instead of just the negative.
I know its a weird thought but i guess if you can’t beat them out of certain illogical beliefs with logic, then join them and make their religion better? I guess thats what im saying.
All i know is, i hate religion, but i do believe there is a god. So for me it wouldn’t be creating a god rather it would be discovering a possibility of a god that could be.
Who are you to decide what I want to hear? And why would I want to invent a god? I mean, yet another god in addition to all the other gods that have already been invented, with complete mythologies? It would just be a rehash of sumerian, greek, norse, etc. mythologies and god attributes. Why bother?
Who am i to decide what you want to hear? I am making assumptions about what you believe as you are about what I believe. I understand what I believe when i place my frame of thought into that of an atheist. So what i want to hear is a valid argument that is ,yes maybe a rehash, but also must be more than that so that i dont have to continue to go to religions “find god”. I have some thoughts on this subject that i need criticized.
I know for someone who believes there is no such thing as god that this is futile, repulsive and arrogant. I know this because i have no problem looking through the lens to of an atheist. Everyone reading this will not have the same thoughts as me. I was under the impression that this was a debate forum. My apologies for jumping to conclusions but if we just say whats the point?, then what are we really doing here?
I don’t want to be here friend, but I can’t stop asking these questions. Thank you if you want to help me. If not I understand.
Yes, you are making assumptions. As far as assumptions go, you are very vague on what you believe, so there is not much to go on there.
That, quite frankly, does not make sense. Stop, breathe, think, and reformulate.
Then try to present those thoughts coherently formulated. Otherwise, it’s just confusing reading.
Atheism in its most basic sense is just the absence of belief, not a claim to the non-existense of a god. But the claims of theists about the attributes of their god are fair game. Criticizing a representation of a god does not mean an acceptance of existence.
If you have no problem looking through the lens of an atheist, why do you believe in a god?
For a debate to happen, you have to present something to debate. So far, you have not.
Please share. You say there is a good reason, I for one would love to hear it. I have yet to hear a good reason for divine hiddenness. Isn’t it interesting how a god that is divinely hidden, and one that does not exist at all, are exactly alike?
Please share your reason.
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Great! So starting off, if anyone says there is a god in the world we are living in they are delusional. If you had a roommate that you never saw but there dirty clothes were lying everywhere leftover food in the fridge, none of the dishes are clean that they used, so all the signs of having a roommate, but you never actually met them. Can you really say that they exist? Terrible analogy but just bump that up to the level of what god should be so that we say that is god and not just a law of physics. That is why i can say i am an atheist. There isn’t anyone or anything roaming the earth with the power of what we could only describe as God. So in observing this world i can easily call myself an atheist.
Now does that mean there is no such thing as God? If we can’t prove the existence of a god in physical or actual form, whatever that may be, does that mean a god does not or cannot exist? Can we formulate a set of circumstances that give us a logical reason for why an all powerful all knowing god (i just say god ,not to be ontological, but to me anything that could be greater is god so therefore the omni-statements) would allow this world to be the way it is and not fully reveal himself.
Im not an academic so here is my view in the way i speak. Two angels walking in heaven. Suddenly one is roasted. Feathers and halo all laid out on the ground. The other angel looks around wondering what just happened and sees god. Angel asks god, “What did you do that for?” God replies “he was going to do something bad, trust me im god i know all. “
If this is what god did every time to prevent evil then we would always question him wondering if what he is saying is really true. So then let the world play out as it has no need to interfere in world conflicts because the point is to show how bad we can be. To the bone. In summary, good god stops evil, we call him the evil one. I think there is more than just that reason for why god would allow this world but i will start with that.
Thanks for the response. I don’t get to speak to smart people very often, well those who would want to talk about these things anyway.
Welcome to AR @ChristianAtheist I would ask how you want to conceive your god since I don’t believe god exists except as an imaginary construct. Ask yourself how your belief in a god affects how you live your life and what part your god plays in the choices you make. Free yourself from the need to prove that a god common to all exists. Start living your life free from the burden of trying to convince others that god exists. If you adopt this course you will find that you can let go of the notion that a biblical god, who lets face it, is one mean son of bitch assuming that even half the stories told about him are true even exists. I don’t have a god living in my imagination but I do have a moral compass that helps me discern right from wrong. Perhaps the reason you hate religion is because the god preached about in church is not congruent with your moral compass.
How would we know? If that kind of thing was a common occurrence then most of us would go…“ooops I didn’t know Hal was bad, ah well. Coming to the pub?” Very few people would question especially if this hypothetical god announced that questioning its motives was evil itself…see where I am going? We would build our societies (as we have over thousands of years) around the vagaries and demands of those who have the very power that you just described.
Wanna try again?
Can you demonstrate that claim?
We have no such evidence for a god. No, you could not say ‘a roommate existed.’ All you could say is that these things happen.
Another inane assertion. You have no idea at all of what is roaming the earth. You have not been to all parts of the earth. This is a black swan fallacy. (I have never seen it so it does not exist.) Your arguments are not coherent.
No one has to disprove anything. That is not how this works. The person making a positive claim has the burden of proof. Without facts or evidence to support a claim, the ‘Null Hypothesis’ cannot be rejected. There is no reason to believe an unsubstantiated claim.
This is a strawman fallacy. Now you are creating a god that you think you can debunk. If you are an atheist, as you claim, it is not up to you to create gods that you can debunk. Your position should be; to listen to the theist’s version of a god and see if their version is logically sound and valid. Again, if not, then the null hypothesis can not be rejected and there is no good reason to believe their claim.
This is the definition of the Deist god. A god that created the world and then left it to its own devices. This is the god of divine hiddenness. A god that does not interfere in the lives of men, who can not be prayed to, who performs no miracles, who does not interfere in any way and can not be detected, is the exact same thing as a god that is not there. It is a useless and completely unverifiable God. The null hypothesis has not been rejected and there is absolutely no reason of justification for believing in such a mental construct.
Not if they have actual proof or strong enough empirical evidence that such a thing as a god actually exists. But so far, all claims that “there is a god in the world we are living in” are just that – claims. Besides, you’re not the first one playing that game. If anyone seriously claim they have an invisible rainbow farting unicorn in their garage without presenting any convincing empirical evidence, would you tend to believe the claim or think they are delusional?
Yes, it’s a terrible analogy, first and foremost because we know that actual roommates exist in the real world. They can be counted, measured, they can show their ID, etc. And some of them can be elusive and quite eccentric, and one can conceive of a number of reasons you haven’t met him/her (and such reasons would be irrelevant to god claims, so there is no point detailing this further). We do not know that a god actually exists. A phenomenon that is (so far) not explained by current knowledge does not amount to evidence of the existence of a god. To invoke strange or unexplained phenomena as proof or evidence for a god is a fallacy known as an argument from (personal) incredulity.
Such an elusive god would in practice be indistinguishable from naturally occuring phenomena. A god that cannot be detected by any means or does not interact with the real world in any meaningful way would for all practical means and purposes not exist, and could then only be summed up as a figment of your imagination.
If you want a fruitful discussion, present the specific attributes of this god. Then it might actually be possible to discuss this particular god, rather than some elusive and abstract idea.
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Is it a secret? Only if it’s a good reason one wonders why you are telling us it exists without trying to either explain or evidence it?
I don’t think atheist means what you think it does, as that assertion is a pretty glaring oxymoron.
No, you will have an hypothesis you’ve imagined. I also don’t think disprove means what you think it does, and atheism is simply the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, it need not involve making a contrary claim, i.e. that no deity exists.
As others have pointed out, this makes no sense. My criteria for credulity is that sufficient objective evidence be demonstrated to support an assertion, so your imagined deity has no objective difference to any of the others humans have imagined.
Can you demonstrate any objective evidence that a deity exists or is even possible outside of your imagination?
All you have offered thus far is what you’ve created in your imagination.
I have made no assumption about what you believe, though it is true you are making erroneous assumptions about what atheists may or may not believe. Since the term Christian inherently infers certain beliefs, whereas the term atheist does not infer any beliefs at all, only the lack or absence of theistic belief.
Who cares, atheism has a primary definition, and beyond that any atheist my believe or not whatever they are minded to, how you view that is entirely moot.
That’s nonsensical gibberish.
Gibberish, try again.
Atheism is simply the lack or absence of belief in a deity. It is not a claim or belief no deity exists, though some atheists do claim this.
Except you have no way of knowing anything about any atheist beyond the fact they lack theistic belief, until they tell you, yet you keep making broad assumptions about atheists without actually asking them what they do and do not believe.
Well I am waiting for you to offer something beyond bare assertions, and semantical arguments that are at odds with any dictionary.
A rather stupid claim, since participation here is not mandatory the only salient response is why then are you here?
What questions?