On voting towards Peace

I am posting below a long and arguably incoherent series of thoughts I’ve put together recently regarding the “progressive” movement across American politics. Although it addresses briefly the democratic process of voting, I think it generally applies more to the philosophical concept of peace. Curious any thoughts on this. (PS. Writing is clearly not a strong-suit of mine)

QUESTION: Do you think world peace can be achieved, and if so, how can we do it?

Happiness and peace are merely states of internal being. Likewise, so is suffering. The degree to which one suffers then, or remains at peace is completely subjective, regardless of the external environment in which one is placed.

On the surface, the environment may amplify the degree to which one suffers, or likewise, prospers but it is not the case that that which is deeply internal should be moved in either direction by the environment. There are two rich people, one may be “happy” the other “unhappy”, even tho they have the same thing. It depends on the individuals mental and spiritual attitude towards the thing, not the thing itself. Likewise, two people are in a concentration camp. One may experience complete despair while the other remains at peace.

Voting in a political system changes the external environment, but can not (except to a small degree) change an individuals internal mental and spiritual attitude. Additionally, because the external environment is so fleeting and temporal, one may only perceive to be happy for a definite amount of time, likely to become unhappy once more as the environment inevitably shifts once again.

Wouldn’t a better goal be then, to change the internal perspective of things so that no matter the external; the internal remains at peace.

Arguably, as the individual aqcuires internal peace, it is radiated outwardly and transferred to the external.

An individual votes on the basis that they would like to :
A) personal gain/ self interest
B) create a “better” external environment for all

A ) what is the point of this? If happiness does not come from the external environment then voting for a better life externally is not sufficient and happiness will never be obtained. Furthermore, even if superficial happiness were obtained, it is a brief moment and arguably pointless. You also have to do so knowing full well that what is good for you is necessarily NOT good for someone else, if not many others. You can not claim you are voting this way because it will create a better world because everything is subjective.

B) because “better” and happiness is subjective, it is impossible for one to make a decision that benefits all simultaneously. By pushing your beliefs forward, you set back others’ equally subjective and fair happiness.

My guess is that you (or anyone else) couldn’t get 10% of the world’s population to agree on what “world peace” even means.


Happiness is an emotion…a way of “being” (btw, I’m giving you some slack on the term “spiritual” used in your OP :roll_eyes:)

The external environment is vital to humans physical, emotional and social needs. Human rights (women owing property, voting, reproductive rights…children - home environments, labor laws, etc) have advance via politics- which is more than “voting”.

Mental health and physical health can play a part in the “happiness” of some - and various levels exist (of happy).

Decisions based on better or happy are foolish because there isn’t a measure. Groups try various “rules” for the group that work until they don’t (for the group or individuals).

Better, for myself, is simply “doing less harm”.

This caught my eye as an interesting tidbit! Imagine my disappointment when I discovered you never mentioned this “progressive” movement again.

Your nesting looks like it is smoking crack. It goes from A to B to A to B! At first I was trying to fix it for you, but the problem listed below made that very difficult:

I will put this as gently as I can and still try to communicate what I mean:

Much of what you wrote sounds as if it came out of the New Age Bullshit Generator. I think the following line represents a pretty good example:

and just for kicks: is the word fair in that sentence being used as a noun, verb, adverb, or adjective (or something else)? I keep re-reading it, and I can’t decide. :woman_shrugging:t6:

Hahahah I actually took a look at the generator in the link you sent and I feel it’s a fair critique, even if a bit harsh.

Idk, you said

But didn’t really elaborate for clarity.

Also, the word fair in your quoted statement is an adjective to happiness. Equally subjective and equally fair.

I’m sorry it disappointed you, and I do see what you mean as it doesn’t directly address the “progressive movement”. I think it was indirectly addressing it though through its inherent definition. The idea that here in America our “progressive movement” is focused on voting in or out policies that superficially improve lives. We are conditioned to think that whether or not abortion (just one contentious issue) is legal, our lives will improve. The argument here is that those policies still don’t address the deeper level of suffering we experience within.

I’m stunned. I don’t know what to say…

You truncated the quote, right where I included the part you said I didn’t include:

How should I respond to someone who claims I didn’t explain something that I clearly explained? What the fuck is wrong with you?

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Government isn’t your (or anyone) therapist.

It seems to me that irrationally and cruelty are such ineradicable parts of the human condition that the notion of ‘peace’ is a bit overrated.

Also not quite sure about attaining peace, personal or public or otherwise, through political election voting. Politics is division by definition, in my observation.

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Not so. One form of peace is an internal state of being. Peace can also be empirically measured whether you are internally at peace. Look at the dictionary and you will find two common usages. The first refers to being internally at peace and the second to a cessation of all external conflicts. Less you make an equivocation fallacy with more muddled thinking, you might want to distinguish which ‘peace’ you are discussing and not confuse the two as you are currently doing.

You have read one too many Krishnamurti books. Perhaps we could begin a program of Government-run mind control. Have you heard of Confucianism? The experiment has been done. Little kids in Asian schools have been taught to sit for hours and contemplate morality according to Confucian ideals. It has led us to Chinese mind control programs and North Korean Communism. But… let’s go ahead and change the internal perspective of things anyway, no matter external circumstances. We can all be at peace living a North Korea-like existence.

And you are now blurring 'happiness," the same way you attempted to blur, ‘peace.’ Your perception of these terms is way too simplistic for the discussion you are attempting.

An unfounded claim that can only be thwarted by the fact that you are thinking in terms of absolutes. It’s completely possible to make a decision that would benefit every human being on the planet. It may even be probable. (Putting out a major forest fire reduces pollution and thus benefits every human being on the planet.) No one ever said benefits do not also carry with them consequences. Someone will be injured while putting out the fire. The cost of putting out the fire will cause some hardships. etc etc…

Again you are thinking simplistically, very simplistically, and in terms of the Absolute This or the Absolute That. You are not functioning in any sort of reality at all.

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Cog, I very much appreciate the feedback, especially about my use of definitions on the terms peace and happiness; and the simplistic absoluteness. And somehow you were able to do so without using a condescending tone or curse words!

I realize this site isn’t really for me, as I am not a robot like the rest of you. Nothing but frustration on my end in an attempt to learn. And that’s not a criticism of you all, but a recognition of my failure to communicate in the same way or my lack of a phd. Idk. I wish you all the best, thanks for the help over the last few days. Peace.

Hey, Cog! What the fuck, dude? I thought we taught you better than that, dumbass! Now look what you’ve done! By not being a smart-ass and not swearing in a post, you’ve done gone and run off Mr. Curiosity. What the hell is wrong with you?

Mr. Curiosity, please forgive Cog. His brain must have slipped on one of his rotten banana peels during his last post. If you’ll be patient for just a bit, we’ll have White work him over with her rolling pin to get his head back in the game. Meanwhile, peace and happiness are the responsibility of individuals to achieve in their own manner and time, regardless of their environmental/societal circumstances. Just my own personal “philosophy”.

Then I suggest you toughen up, hang in there and fucking read the posts people are sending to you. All you have said is that you don’t think you can hang with intelligent people and you are more comfortable wallowing in a fallacious existence of delusion. Why the fuck would you do that? Listen to what the fuck people are telling you?

Profanity is not an indication of “WHAT” one has to say, but rather it is “HOW” they say it. No one really gives a shit if you like it or not and it has nothing to do with the content of what is being said.

Fuck Tin Man!

Hahahaha… there’s only one robot and Tin has been re-programmed since Cog found him a heart.

David Wilcox with Gaia probably has a site more suited for the mind-candy addict.

:grinning::grinning::grinning::grinning: YAY! Now there’s the Cog I know and love! :heart::heart::heart:

Uh, I hate to break the news, but that was NOT a heart Cog found for me. Upon closer inspection, I discovered it was a chunk of out-dated Spam he had molded into the shape of a heart. But - hey - it’s the thought that counts, right? Oh, and I guess it wasn’t TOO out-dated, because it was pretty good on a sandwich after I sliced it up and fried it.


phd PHD lol :laughing:

Some of us are backward, red-neck, freezing our asses off in rural country, with NO phd hanging on our dilapidated walls…

A love of learning, an ability to accept criticism and question premises (instead of accepting) AND a sense of humor (mind you this is tied into intelligence and not taking oneself too seriously) is about the only thing needed around here.

Oh - and a fucking weapon.

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That seems like nonsense to me sorry. I’m guessing the suffering of being (for example) raped or tortured, or having a loved one murdered, raped or tortured , is a pretty objective metric for suffering. As opposed to say your team losing in the final…or having someone criticise your superstious religious beliefs.

Rolling pin…?

BS - Bull Shit
MS - More Shit
PHD - Piled Higher and Deeper.
FW - A “Fucking Weapon” (Ohhhh Gooooo! I am turned on now! )


Damn, we just lost another one.