Over at another forum I frequent, there is currently some activity in a thread where the OP asks “What is illogical about believing in God?” This thread is turning into quite the shit show. “Arguments” of the form “can you see, taste or smell your feelings?”; “can you see a magnetic field?”; “you can actually see colours, but they don’t really exist”. “It’s the interpretations of mythology that are silly, not the actual mythologies”. The theists ask the non-believers to define the god they don’t believe in. So it has parallels with certain recent threads here involving a certain S-H. But it’s even more of a shit show. I really want to contribute with some well-placed facts here, but for my own sanity, I’m going to sit on my hands and stay quiet.
Any belief without evidence is illogical. Now, the standard for evidence set by the individual is subjective. Mine is simple (civil-court). This has me “believing” in UFO or now UAP (unidentified arial phenomenon) - but not “god”.
I try not to hold beliefs without satisfying evidence…and (as with the case in UAP) I don’t assign them an origin (that isn’t evidenced).
There’s nothing wrong with an illogical belief - BUT depending on how it affects your worldview or life that is a more important issue (imo). I may believe wedding vows of faithfulness although there is no evidence or some may believe promises of changes from people without evidence
Religious ideology that effects societal structures and political viewpoints are influential on individuals and require evidence for said beliefs.
Well they’re false equivalence fallacies for a start, though I doubt they want to hear that, or will honestly acknowledge it.
Whataboutism, it’s a form of a tu-quoque fallacy.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.
Yes, I feel your pain.
Probably wise, but if you are tempted, don’t let them drive the dialogue, pick obviously weak or irrational claims, and highlight them specifically, and don’t be tempted to answer every nonsensical claim.
Or, you could have a bit of fun with it, tell them you have the “gift”, it comes from your mother’s side, that’ll fuck with them for sure.
“I see dead people!”
“Well of course you fucking do, corpses don’t become invisible you twat!”
“Sorry but if you can’t be civil and respect my BELIEFS I shall have to ignore your posts…” one from the SH playbook there…
If God is real, he is not real in the same sense as a color. I can paint my house red and then tell you I live in the red house on the corner, and you can find my house. You can not find God in the same way.
If god is real, he is not as real as taste. If I put an assortment of Harry Potter Jelly Beans on the counter and ask you to find the chocolate, you are not going to have any problem sorting through Hairy-banana, Bluberry-buger, Earwax, Grass, Wormy-apple, Rotten-egg, Lemon-sausage, Soap, Tutti-fruitty, or Vomit, to find the Chocolate. Now line up the Christian versions of God and see if you can even spot yours.
I can’t see a magnetic field, but I can use a magnet to make a tight seal on a cabinet door or refrigerator. I can use a magnet to power speakers in stereos and headphones. I can use magnets to store data in computers and scanning machines. Doctors use magnets to save lives in MRIs to save lives. Magnets and magnetic fields are measurable, reliable, and dependable. They can be predicted and are useful to everyone regardless of their religion. Magnets and magnetic fields offer their services to us unconditionally. They don’t care what you believe or who you are, (gay, witch, or heathen) you can still attach your kids homework to the refrigerator. Now that is unconditional love. Something your God is completely incapable of doing.
They are asserting the god thing is real. I can show them in what sense color, taste, sound, magnetism, etc., are real. In what sense is this god thing real?
Thanks for that Cog. Stolen and will be used elsewhere. Outstanding bit of logic.
An 'Actual Mythology" is an oxymoron. It’s like a McDonald’s hamburger being made with 100% pure beef. (Made With) being a key concept here. They might put a teaspoon of pure beef in every ton to justify the advertisement. Sure it might be ‘made with’ a hundred percent pure beef, but where exactly is that hundred percent amongst all the bullshit, and how do you know you actually have a bit of it? No one can make the assertion that there is something true behind a myth, without first clearly demonstrating that truth and its direct connection to the myth. (One can’t just assert there is a needle in every haystack. One must demonstrate it.)
It’s like saying "It’s not the 99.999% of filler that counts in the McDonald’s hamburger. It’s the 0,0001% that makes all the difference. Now I can see how someone making a billion dollars a year and working for McDonald’s would think that way. But, as for me? I am sticking with the facts. The hamburgers are mostly junk. As is Christian mythology. In fact, there is so much junk that we have over 45,000 Christian denominations. And all of them are claiming to have the only true real piece of the Jesus myth. Frankly, I am going to wait for them to sort it out and get back to me. I don’t have an angel in this fight.
Your overall message is clear and acceptable, however, your example has a hole in it.
Actually, they say, “McDonald’s burgers are made of 100% ground beef.”
With / of……
I will have to update my example… This one was very old. I fear I am a victim of very old smear campaign against MacDonalds. That said the burgers were only 10% beef mixed with other cow parts, after all it is all technically beef. Then there is the dairy industry that is supposed to sell old dead dairy cows to McDonald’s. I am a victim of these stories, mostly because I really don’t like McDonald’s. Well fuck me. I’m and asshole who is spreading unfounded claims once againl. DAMN! I can’t find a damn thing supporting any of this ancient shit currently. I swear this is shit I believed when I was in High School and never thought twice about. I just dusted it off and decieded to air it here. Yep! That’s how stupid I can be at times. Thanks for updating my software Cyber!
Oh, Oh, Oh… I may have vindicated myself… 2004! " Super Size Me" Every since the release of the 2004 documentary “Super Size Me,” we’ve all wondered what it is we’re ingesting when we eat McDonald’s.
“On Wednesday, McDonald’s announced the product was no longer used in their burgers, Time reports. “This decision was a result of our efforts to align our global standards for how we source beef around the world,” Todd Bacon, senior director of quality systems for McDonald’s, said in a statement.”
My information may, in fact, just be dated. I feel so much better. I found some contradictory claims:
" When did McDonald’s stop using pink slime?
“AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. McDonalds stopped using the by-product, known in the industry as lean, finely-textured beef, in 2011, according to a statement the company made on its website around that time.Aug 10, 2022”
This was the recipe before 2004
I still appreciate the update and I will stop bagging on Mac Donalds. They did have a terrible rep at one point. And this report claims only 13% of the burger was pink slime, but I recall reports of more.
Anyway… MacDonalds seems to have pulled it together in the past few decades, and I am behind the times. I am most certainly guilty of outdated information, conspiracy shit, and hyperbole. Who could have guessed?
PS… I like nitpicking, it means I only have to sound stupid once. PPSS : Yes, bad example, and the last time I will use it. (Just to be perfectly clear.)
Well, as most universities won’t allow non Homo sapiens species to enroll, you can’t be expected to be up on all the latest fast food restaurant information. Therefore, it’s incumbent on the humans here (but not @Tin-Man as he is not one) to provide you with an appropriate education.
What do you mean “we”, banana breath? Nobody could pay me enough to eat anything from Mickey D’s. Haven’t entered that place in years. If McDeath was the last food place on Earth, I would go out and find me a nice green patch of grass to munch on. In all fairness, though, I also try to avoid most all other fast food places whenever I am able. None of them settle on my stomach very well anymore nowadays. There was a time in my life I had a cast iron stomach. Could eat damn near anything without so much as a hiccup. Now it’s more like a paper mache stomach.
Says the man who completed all the hot chip challenges in 2022 and 2023. No eating 2 hours before bedtime and avoid tomatoes. (That’s what works for me.) I am in agreement with you regarding McDonald’s.
Tangentially, in my native language, if you pronounce the “Mc” part of “McDonald’s” slightly different, i.e. replace the “a” in “Mac” with another vowel that is not too dissimilar, you change the meaning to “Shite Donald’s” (or “Manure Donald’s” if you’re in polite company). I use it whenever I find it appropriate.
I’ve had to give up on McDonalds burgers recently when they changed to adding onions by default when cooking them. I’m allergic to onions.
Getting back on topic, before Cyber comes and tells us to move the Mc Donald’s stuff to the fun room… You know that if you pray over a Mc Donald’s hamburger, it has absolutely no effect on the dead cow meat between the two bleached out white flour buns at all.
Like the Bible says: “They will take up shakes with their hands, and when they eat the deadly Big Mac, it will not hurt them. They will place their hands on sick oily fries, and though their fingers burn, they will get well.” (R, Mic D. 16:18)
So, according to the holy book of Mc Donald’s, you are all wrong.
Consider it done……
What is illogical about believing in God is the harm and damage that it creates.
I see gay people villified, I’ve seen Planned Parenthood clinics firebombed, Creationists pushing their fucking bullshit in public schools, and the AR-15 rifle being a subject of religious significance. See below: