Over on another platform, I came across a discussion regarding the best reply to give when you are approached with the question of whether you believe in god or jeebus (or any variant of this question), or when a door knocker comes bothering you when you’re at home, and you just want them to leave and be left alone. There were a lot of good suggestions, but in my opinion, one of the best replies offered was: “No thanks, I don’t believe in the occult”. This reply allegedly left the proselytiser gaping indignantly with a purple face as the person uttering it just walked along as if nothing had happened.
So, what is your take on this? Any suggestions for a better reply when you are not in the mood for discussing superstitious shit, just want to be left the f*k alone, and are not afraid of burning bridges?
If an apologist doesn’t take no for an answer, very rare here thankfully, then I politely say I have no interest in archaic superstitions, that seems to hit the mark, where all else has failed.
…but I am interested in the subject (and probably you too, since you are here to argue discuss with believers), so for me it would be lying to formulate it like that. That is, I am somewhat fascinated by what superstitions people believe in, why they believe it, and the counter arguments. IMHO, a better formulation would be “I don’t believe/I see no reason to believe in archaic superstitions” or something like that.
Oh to be clear, this is only if I considered it intrusive, and it was in person, and they’re not taking a polite refusal as intended. Very few interactions are like that here, and online is quite different, obviously.
Yeah, the god botherers are (fortunately) few and far between here as well, but every now and then, some JWs or LDSs knock on our door to proselytise. And they always come at inopportune times - typically around dinner time - so that I don’t have time to arg…discuss with them. Finding a good way to scare them away before they enter argumentation mode is my goal here.
In the local area where I live, the only god botherers I see out and about on the streets are JWs, but they only interact if people stop and ask questions. If I go to the next city center, I can find all sorts, ranging from hallelujah-shouting charismatic christians to competing islamic sects handing out korans. But I only rarely go there, and when I do, I don’t have the time to interact with them. Besides, some of them have started video recording interactions (especially the muslims), so for that reason interactions with them feels uncomfortable.
I was at a cashpoint in town, heading to the pub, and a couple of young men, looking like Mormon missionaries, asked me I had time to talk, nope sorry, and I am an atheist to be honest. They looked genuinely crestfallen, and said there seemed to be a lot of atheists, I am guessing compared to where they hail from in the US, this is very true, but just smiled, and said a polite good luck as I hoofed it to Wetherspoons.
All of these proposed responses have a similar impact on someone so enamored with the rightness of their beliefs: it wounds them to think others have spent time thinking about these matters and come to different conclusions.
“I don’t believe in the occult” would hit a fundamentalist Christian particularly hard because they see their beliefs as the opposite of “the occult” which to them is not something like “esoterica”, but more like purposely conjuring evil spirits.
“I prefer reality” or its rough equivalent, “I am not superstitious” punctures the notion that they have some sort of ultimate truth.
All of which gets at their desperate need to be taken seriously. If they aren’t taken seriously they don’t win converts, which reminds them of their minority status in the world, plus that fact that after 2,000 years of strenuous effort (and often turning a few thumscrews!) they have, even by the generous standard of “cultural Christianity”, failed to win over 2/3 of the human race.
If they get nasty with me (which has happened), I tell them to take up studying yoga . . . so that they can go fuck themselves.
I have a huge amount of bitterness and rancor toward organized religion.
I worked in EMS when Planned Parenthood clinics were firebombed with Molotov cocktails, and assholes like Pat Robertson were preaching that gay men wore sharp -edged rings that were deliberately contaminated with AIDS infected blood.
Children were beaten, subjected to electricity, and deprived of sleep in the name of gay conversion therapy.
If I recall correctly, Jay dubs don’t necessarily care if you are in any way influenced by their missionary work. For them it’s enough that the “salvation” of Jesus has been at least uttered. For they believe that once every person has been “informed” the end times will come. I worked with several jay dubs on the ropes. The moment you deny their Lord and Saviour, you’re immediately ostracized by them in any way shape or form they can. I believe they call it separating the goats from the sheep. I could be wrong.
JW is a very high demand religion. I am not sure if they are allowed to have friends that are not believers. I have met a few in a working environment. I was surprised they were allowed to have any education at all beyond high school.
Although they don’t outright prohibit it, they strongly discourage higher education as a waste of time due to the imminent return of Jesus. The time, they say, is much more productively spent witnessing and preparing for Jesus’ return.
I have seen posts by former JWs who were told this when they were teens back in the 1970s or 80s and now that they have left the cult they have plenty of life choices to regret … they are uneducated, working shit jobs for low pay, and have no prospects whatsoever. And usually, shunned and disowned by their families.
I was raised LDS, and education was actually very, very promoted. I am acquainted with the idea of the immediate return of Christ idea. I remember as a child being told that. I got impression that it would happen in a matter of minutes. I recall that the belief instilled a sense of paranoia, that people were out to get us.
If they’re paying attention, then they should definitely forbid their members from enrolling in university to study biology.
“Among elite scientists (those with an asterisk by their names in James McKean Cattell’s American Men of Science), the percentage of believers was lower, at 31.6 percent. Among elite biologists, the subset who believed in God was even smaller—16.9 percent.”
I suppose it takes some mental gymnastics to reconcile an all loving and merciful deity, with nature that is “red in tooth and claw”.
They divide them into categories. Those who actively further preach the coming of Christ and those who don’t. You’re not held in high esteem among the flock unless you actively preach to people who don’t give a fuck and could care less. And by “high esteem” that refers to one’s eventual status in the paradise world which is on the horizon once the Jeebus man comes back from vacation.
My response would be, and has been “no thanks, and I’ll see you in hell”. I had a co-worker 30+ years ago that used to try to convert me on a daily basis, but my response most of the time was “I’ll see you in hell”. 'Some people just can’t take a hint.
