New guy who believes in God

[rat_spit]

@Cognostic

The brain, absent input from the body’s senses, creates the ‘astral body’ or ‘religious hallucination.’ The absence of sensation from the body creates serious integrity problems for the brain

One problem. We are dealing with clinically dead people whose hearts and brains have stopped functioning. These people, once resuscitated, report experience which extends into time beyond the point of death.

@Cognostic

I was probably once as fucked up as ratty. LOL.

Possible. I’m quite fucked up. Not as much now as in my early to mid twenties. Imagine having a vice grip headache which is more of a “mind” ache than a real “pain” experienced in the brain. And imagine having that for four years.

Then fast forward to today where I’m regularly in cogent and intentional conversations with a being who, at all stages of judgment on my part, is superior in every imaginable manner to me.

I don’t have the luxury of “owing” a self identity. My self identity, at the best of times, is an allowance on the part of the being. Any “train of thought” I manage to produce is quickly put into perspective by the taunts and menacing torture of the superior being.

Which is probably why I enjoy writing on this forum. It gives me a sense of self where I’m otherwise overwhelmed by the presence of this being.

As far as “I” can tell, my agency in this body extends only to what I absorb through my senses along with volitional control of my appendages (all five of them - and even then I cannot control the fifth with any amount of regularity).

But your report of the “laughing man” should give you pause for thought. Are you able to clearly reason that this being was an extension of your drugged psyche (in spite of how idiosyncratic he may have been in both appearances and mannerism)?

[MrDawn]

@rat_spit

These people, once resuscitated, report experience which extends into time beyond the point of death.

I’m lost. What are you talking about?

[rat_spit]

The reality is that some people will succumb to death as a result of cardiac arrest. The facts show that brain activity comes to a halt soon after the heart stops providing blood flow to the brain.

These same people are resuscitated back from death. And those people report experiences which, if we are to believe these people, extend in time beyond the point of death.

These experiences include floating weightless above their body while sometimes observing doctors and paramedics in the process of life “reviving” procedures.

Besides the fact that the timeline for these experiences extend beyond the time of death, the content of the experiences have commonalities among those who die and are resuscitated.

Such commonalities include travelling to a heavenly realm through a portal of light and meeting with the souls of loved ones who have passed into death prior.

If we are to even allow for the existence of these experiences, we must explain how they are able to happen in spite of the heart and brain no longer beating or sending electrical impulses (respectively).

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

hese people, once resuscitated,* report experience which extends into time beyond the point of death.

NOT DEAD. Brain-dead is brain-dead. There is absolutely no evidence that anyone can have any memory of anything, once the brain has stopped functioning. People regaining consciousness have a functioning brain. People whose hearts have stopped still have a functioning brain. People who have suffered a heart attack can describe events occurring to them while they are resuscitated. This is well documented. This suggests, while their heart may not be beating, their brain is alive, functioning, and aware of what is going on around them. This is true, even though they display none of the clinical signs of consciousness. (Nothing mystical, no soul, no magic, not even anything special. Just a body dying.)

FYI - From all we know " A patient cannot recover from brain death .
NEUROCRITICAL CARE SOCIETY
Q: Has anyone ever recovered from brain death?
A: No. Death is permanent. If anyone claims to have recovered from brain death, then the diagnosis
was incorrect.

Brain%20Death%20FAQ%20-%20final%20posted.pdf

And the refrigerator dore is closed, the curtains have been dropped, the open sign turned around, and all the crows have gotten the flock out of the field. Your story is 'OVER"

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

These same people are resuscitated back from death.

No one is resuscitated back from death. If they are dead, they are dead. They are resuscitated back from a heart attack or some event that has caused the heart to malfunction. (The heart does not stop during many heart attacks. It goes into a state of fibrillation.) Atrial fibrillation is a heart condition that causes an irregular and often abnormally fast heart rate In this case the heart beats so fast that blood is not being pumped. This is when they use electric shock and “defibrillate” the heart. The heart is beating during many heart attacks.

NOW HERE IS A BIT OF NEWS FOR YOU… ‘SURPRISE’

Can You Use an AED on Someone with a Stopped Heart? The short answer to this is no. An AED can only be used on someone with a rapid heart rate . You cannot use it on victims with an extremely slow heart rhythm or those whose heart stops beating.

Can A Defibrillator Restart A Stopped Heart? | aedusa.com

Please read something besides the wall in the bathroom where you take a dump.

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

But your report of the “laughing man” should give you pause for thought. Are you able to clearly reason that this being was an extension of your drugged psyche (in spite of how idiosyncratic he may have been in both appearances and mannerisms)?

If you were listening, you would not have asked the question.

[rat_spit]

@Cognostic

People regaining consciousness have a functioning brain

People regaining consciousness have an inactive brain which is reactivated.

Sure. If you look at a guy in a coma who is literally brain dead, then we’re talking about brain cells which no longer have the capacity for brain activity.

However, a brain cell which is unable to activate is not the same as a brain cell which has stopped activating.

None the less, a brain which no longer transmits signals is not capable of generating experiences. And yet that is exactly the state of the brain in persons who have had cardiac arrest, accumulate memories and experiences 5, 10 minutes into this event, and then regain their brain activity when the heart is revived.

These people are wholly conscious in (or outside of you prefer) a body whose brain is NO LONGER ACTIVE (ie. no electrical activity; no gamma waves; no delta waves; naughta)

[rat_spit]

@Cognostic

And the refrigerator dore is closed, the curtains have been dropped, the open sign turned around, and all the crows have gotten the flock out of the field. Your story is 'OVER"

Not so fast Mr. Banana Dick.

In cardiac arrest, the heart quivers with uncoordinated contractions, and the blood flow to every part of the body — including the brain — ceases . Unlike a heart attack, in which the heart continues to beat despite a painful reduction in blood flow, a person in cardiac arrest is always unconscious.

If you’d like to explain how an unconscious person has lucid experiences he or she or it can clearly remember which, mind you, seem to have recurring themes in countless people (including OBE’s, heavenly portals, and other souls) I’d be biting at the chomp (or wait …) “chomping at the bit” to hear it. (That’s what I meant: chomping - like a horse kind of does. At a “bit”. Like, one of those horse things used during BDSM rituals)

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

Sure. If you look at a guy in a coma who is literally brain dead,

YOU IDIOT: No one is in a coma who is brain dead. These two things are not the same. I just showed youi that. Coma

A coma is a deep state of eyes-closed unconsciousness where a person is not able to respond to people or the environment around them. In a coma, a patient is alive and there is some brain activity. Depending on the severity of the injury, recovery time varies and comas can be temporary or permanent.

Brain Death is death. No brain function exists. Brain death results from swelling in the brain; blood flow in the brain ceases and without blood to oxygenate the cells, the tissue dies. It is irreversible. Once brain tissue dies, there is nothing that can be done to heal it.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION!!

NO ONE RECOVERS FROM BEING BRAIN DEAD!

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

If you’d like to explain how an unconscious person has lucid experiences he or she or it can clearly remember which, mind you, seem to have recurring themes in countless people (including OBE’s, heavenly portals, and other souls) I’d be biting at the chomp (or wait …) “chomping at the bit” to hear it. (That’s what I meant: chomping - like a horse kind of does. At a “bit”. Like, one of those horse things used during BDSM rituals)

I HAVE EXPLAINED IT, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WHY ARE YOU NOT READING? A brain, absent stimulation from the body, creates its stimulation via hallucinations. This is what you are doing when you meditate. You are limiting sensory input to the brain and then conditioning your brain to behave based on the new information you feed it. (Buddhist Bullshit, Christian Bullshit, Dream Culture Bullshit, Laughing Man Bullshit, Two Brothers Bullshit, Lucid Dreaming Bullshit, OBE bullshit, NDE Bullshit, Spiritual Bullshit, Dream Culture bullshit and the rest. (IT’S ALL BRAIN STATES)

[MrDawn]

@rat_spit

People regaining consciousness have an inactive brain which is reactivated.

Ahem. Please re-read what he said. You’re not listening. Period.

[Nyarlathotep]

@Soldier4christ

Let me rephrase the question to simplify it for you. The oceans and seas hold about 96.5 to 97 percent of all Earth’s water and cover about 71 percent of the Earth’s surface how did water get into Earth?

Didn’t Cog already explain to you the concept of gravity?

[Sheldon]

@rat_spit

Lack of oxygen = bad hallucinations
Being dead = good hallucinations

The first is evidenced, the second is unevidenced superstition.

@rat_spit

it does indicate that experiences continue after brain activity has ended.

I saw no objective evidence of that in anything you posted, and am highly dubious, as this paradigm shifting idea seems yet again to breaking in a chatroom on the internet, and not on news at ten on the BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera et al…

@rat_spit

the whole thing is just the soul escaping the body

That didn’t take long, unevidenced woo woo superstition.

@rat_spit

That is the objective of the soul

…and in other news, mermaid scales aren’t slippery at all… try not to slip on the snake oil being spilled in this sales pitch…

@rat_spit

Much the way that a stroke occurs after there is a restriction of blood flow to a portion of the brain, the end result of cardiac arrest is akin to a global stroke:

COUGH! BULLSHIT COUGH!

@rat_spit

You can’t defend against the claim that people experience things after the ending of brain activity because people’s hearts and brains have been reactivated after clinical death

The semantics are showing through, so just to be clear, are you claiming that anyone has been resuscitated after ALL brain activity has ceased, as I don’t believe you.** Or are you trying to dishonestly equate this woo woo claim with the medical facts of damaged areas of the brains being healed, and pretending this involves woo woo magic?

@rat_spit

people are coming back with exceptional stories to tell.

Indeed, tall anecdotal tales of woo woo might be another way to describe that claim.

@rat_spit

My case is quite open and shut.

It seems we can agree on this at least. You also never even tried to evidence the claim @Cognostic called you on.

@rat_spit

clinically dead people whose hearts and brains have stopped functioning.

That’s not what clinical death means…

"* Clinical Death

Clinical death is a term that describes the cessation (stopping) of a patient’s heart pumping blood through the body and, inevitably, is paired with a lack of breathing. Clinical death is a medical emergency, without immediate intervention, the window to reverse the condition will close, and legal death will be declared.

Brain Death

Brain death is the cessation of brain activity and the inability for the brain to carry out the proper functions necessary to sustain life. Brain death is irreversible.*

I’m pretty sure @Cognostic already pointed this out in this thread.

@rat_spit

The reality is that some people will succumb to death as a result of cardiac arrest.

I’m pretty sure every single human will do this. I think you mean some people can be resuscitated after their hearts stop beating, but while their brain is still functioning thanks to advances in medical science and knowledge.

@rat_spit

These experiences include floating weightless above their body while sometimes observing doctors and paramedics in the process of life “reviving” procedures.

Claims…they’re anecdotal claims, and even were they proved to be objectively true, all you would have is something you could not explain. You do remember I am sure what an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy is?

@rat_spit

If we are to even allow for the existence of these experiences, we must explain how they are able to happen

Nope, we might want to explain this **were it true, but to assert that not being able to explain it lends credence to a woo woo after life, is a classic argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

@rat_spit

in spite of the heart and brain no longer beating or sending electrical impulses (respectively).

Complete cessation of brain function is irreversible. There is no objective evidence anyone “comes back” from this state (brain death), and if that changes I await the demonstration of objective evidence that this evidences any kind of afterlife, beyond the usual argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

@Cognostic

A patient cannot recover from brain death .

@Cognostic

Q: Has anyone ever recovered from brain death?
A: No. Death is permanent. If anyone claims to have recovered from brain death, then the diagnosis
was incorrect.

[Soldier4christ]

Yes I wanted to know how was water introduced to the planet in the first place? You say gravity? are you saying the water was on the Earth once it formed, and then gravity pulled it down to below land levels? or are you trying to say water came from space and then got pulled down by gravity lol? water covers 71% of the Earth’s surface where did it come from?

[Cognostic]

@Soldier4christ

Yes I wanted to know how was water introduced to the planet in the first place?

Water is made of hydrogen, common throughout the galaxy and oxygen. It is an emergent property of the combination of at least 6 or more molecules. I already told you how it occurred on Earth. I even posted a scientific article. (Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, accounting for about 75 percent of its normal matter , and was created in the Big Bang.)

1. Multiple geochemical studies have concluded that asteroids are most likely the primary source of Earth’s water . Carbonaceous chondrites–which are a subclass of the oldest meteorites in the Solar System–have isotopic levels most similar to ocean water.

2. Washington, DC—Our planet’s water could have originated from interactions between the hydrogen-rich atmospheres and magma oceans of the planetary embryos that comprised Earth’s formative years , according to new work from Carnegie Science’s Anat Shahar and UCLA’s Edward Young and Hilke Schlichting.

So, you have two things going on. AComets, which are made up of ice, dust and rocky materials , " The Earth formed over 4.6 billion years ago out of a mixture of dust and gas around the young sun . It grew larger thanks to countless collisions between dust particles, asteroids,* and other growing planets, including one last giant impact that threw enough rock, gas, and dust into space to form the moon. Water occurs throughout the solar system. The presence of liquid water is maintained by Earth’s atmospheric pressure and stable orbit in the Sun’s circumstellar habitable zone, however the origin of earth’s water is somewhat uncertain.

Next, Recent research, however, indicates that hydrogen inside the Earth played a role in the formation of the ocean. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive, as there is also evidence that water was delivered to Earth by impacts from icy planets similar in composition to asteroids in the outer edges of the asteroid belt. Water is a Naturally Occuring

Origin of water on Earth - Wikipedia.

Earth’s oxygen supply originated with cyanobacteria, tiny water-dwelling organisms that survive by photosynthesis . In that process, the bacteria convert carbon dioxide and water into organic carbon and free oxygen.

Oxygen combined with naturally occuring hydrogen and WALA! Instant water!

How Hydrogen and Oxygen Make Water

Simply mixing hydrogen and oxygen together won’t make water. Hydrogen and oxygen both exist as diatomic gases. A reaction between them requires energy to break the bonds between the atoms so they can form a new product. Once the bonds break, each hydrogen atom has a +1 positive charge, while each oxygen atom has a -2 negative charge. Two hydrogen atoms bound to one oxygen atom yield water, which is electrically neutral. An electrical spark works to initiate the reaction, as does heat. But, once the reaction starts, it’s highly exothermic and goes to completion.

[Cognostic]

@rat_spit

unconscious person has lucid experiences he or she or it can clearly remember which, mind you, seem to have recurring themes in countless people (including OBE’s, heavenly portals, and other souls) I’d be biting at the chomp (or wait …)

Brain death: These patients are no longer alive. There has been an irreversible cessation of all activity in both the brain and the brain stem. Reflexes that go through the spinal cord may persist even in a brain-dead state.

Coma: These patients are alive, but in a state of eyes-closed, depressed consciousness from which they cannot be aroused. Coma is distinguished from brain death by the presence of brain stem responses, spontaneous breathing or non-purposeful motor responses. Coma has three possible outcomes: progression to brain death, recovery of consciousness, or evolution to a state of chronically depressed consciousness, such as a vegetative state or minimally conscious state.

WHY IN THE HELL DO I DO ALL YOUR READING FOR YOU? I know for a fact you are learning nothing. You have done this for years and still fail to take a single step out of your shell of magical woo,

Understanding brain death vs. states of consciousness

[Nyarlathotep]

@Soldier4christ

Yes I wanted to know how was water introduced to the planet in the first place?

H2O is the 3rd most common molecule in the universe. Perhaps you should be asking where all the non-water came from?

[Sheldon]

@Soldier4christ

Yes I wanted to know how was water introduced to the planet in the first place?

Then you should have asked that, and not this…

@Soldier4christ

how did all the seas and oceans, rivers and waterfalls fill up with water?

“Scientists still don’t have a definite answer for the origin of Earth’s water. Several theories exist, including the idea that our water came from comets and asteroids that crashed on Earth. A recent model-based analysis theorizes that early magma oceans interacted with atmospheric hydrogen to create water.”

CITATION

@Soldier4christ

then got pulled down by gravity lol?

“Pulled down”? What a spectacularly stupid assertion, you clearly haven’t even the most basic understanding of how gravity works.

@Soldier4christ

are you trying to say water came from space

Are you serious? Do you not know that water is ubiquitous in space?

" Water appears to be one of the most abundant molecules in the Universe . It dominates the environment of the Earth and is a main constituent of numerous planets, moons and comets."

CITATION

I am starting to lose patience with your nonsense now…

What did you want to debate here? Only this is an atheist debate forum, and given you’re a theist, one imagines you have some reason for seeking us out, and it surely can’t just be to demonstrate your breathtaking ignorance of the most basic scientific facts? Most of which you could learn with a simple search on the internet.

[Soldier4christ]

@Cognostic

however the origin of earth’s water is somewhat uncertain.

you give a detailed answer but it could have been made shorter if you just said “I don’t know”

[Sheldon]

@Soldier4christ

@Cognostic

however the origin of earth’s water is somewhat uncertain.

you give a detailed answer but it could have been made shorter if you just said “I don’t know”

Do you not know what uncertain means?

Did you have any point here at all? If so make it.