Is atherosclerosis a disease?
2 Likes
Because there are much more families that do not have alcohol problems than there are families with an alcohol problem. Thus, if we assume for simplicity that the chances of developing an alcohol problem is purely random(*), the persons that deveolop alcohol problems will be distributed according to the ratio non-problem:problem. And since non-problem > problem, there will be more from a non-problem background than from a problem background. Quite simply.
(*) That’s obviously not quite true and an oversimplification, but for illustration purposes it is good enough.
2 Likes
And there goes genetics out the window… There is a problem here… There is a genetic influence in alcoholic families, but it’s all random in non-alcoholic families.
Anyway, Genetics aside, (Genetics are not the issue.) Everything is related to genetics at some point.,
The issue is “Is Alcoholism a disease?” According to the medical model of alcoholism 'Yes." According to the DSM, it is a mental disorder with behavioral consequences. “Controled drinking is a viable therapeutic outcome and it works for many alcoholics.,” (Let’s not go to… 'Then they weren’t real alcoholics." Please!) " Controlled drinking is an approach to alcohol consumption that focuses on moderation, or setting limits on consumption, as opposed to abstinence, or refraining from consuming alcohol altogether .MET-Motivational Enhancement Therapy is another option. Finally, there are plenty of Self Help groups that do not use the disease model.
Point Being: There are options and I do not buy into the medical disease model.
•Psychoeducational groups
•Skills development groups
•Cognitive—behavioral/problem-solving groups
•Support groups
•Interpersonal process groups
None of these require a person to accept the idea that they have a disease to be treated. I don’t want to be long-winded. But let’s look at the goals of the Psychoeducational group. At no point are people made to think alcoholism is a disease. " Principal characteristics. Psychoeducational groups generally teach clients that they need to learn to identify, avoid, and eventually master the specific internal states and external circumstances associated with substance abuse. The coping skills (such as anger management or the use of “I” statements) normally taught in a skills development group often accompany this learning." The point is, there is nothing in psychological treatment that requires a “disease model.” There is nothing in medical treatment that requires a ‘disease model.’ The exact same results can occur whether or not you opt to call alcoholism a disease. I do not buy into the disease model. Nothing has been said thus far supporting the idea that alcoholism is a disease.
If it has been established that atherosclerosis has specific microorganismal causation, then yes.
But if it does not, then it is not a disease?
1 Like
Is it necessary for a condition to be caused by micro-organisms for it to be called a disease?
Here’s how Encyclopædia Britannica defines disease:
disease, any harmful deviation from the normal structural or functional state of an organism, generally associated with certain signs and symptoms and differing in nature from physical injury. A diseased organism commonly exhibits signs or symptoms indicative of its abnormal state. Thus, the normal condition of an organism must be understood in order to recognize the hallmarks of disease. Nevertheless, a sharp demarcation between disease and health is not always apparent.
(source)
Note how it does not mention infections or communicability.
Besides, cardiovascular conditions like heart attack and stroke, chronic respiratory conditions like asthma, and inherited conditions like Down syndrome, cystic fibrosis, and Huntingtons, are all classified as diseases by the WHO (source). In other words, conditions caused by genetics or other non-microorganism factors are also diseases.
In any case, in the end it boils down to semantics. Which is quite unhelpful. As a layman, I go for the more pragmatic approach and use the terms like the experts use them.
1 Like
No; it would then a be a disorder as the cause of the disturbance of structure or function is a genetic or embyological failure in development, or an external factor (such as alcohol).
Cog is right on this one, in my experience; the two terms are often used interchangeably even by people who know better.
Like I said, there is an aspect of semantics involved here. Some conditions see both uses, like Alzheimer’s (example):
Alzheimer’s disease is a brain disorder that gets worse over time.
What is Alzheimer’s Disease?
- Alzheimer’s disease is the most common type of dementia.
- It is a progressive disease beginning with mild memory loss and possibly leading to loss of the ability to carry on a conversation and respond to the environment.
- Alzheimer’s disease involves parts of the brain that control thought, memory, and language.
It can seriously affect a person’s ability to carry out daily activities.
The dictionary definition of disease (Merriam-Webster) is compatible with the definition given above by Britannica:
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms
Oxford Learner’s Dictionary defines disease like this:
an illness affecting humans, animals or plants, often caused by infection
And Cambridge Dictionary:
illness of people, animals, plants, etc., caused by infection or a failure of health rather than by an accident
A disease is an illness which affects people, animals, or plants, for example one which is caused by bacteria or infection.
(note that microorganismal causes are mentioned as examples here, not as the only cause)
In other words, all the sources I’ve bothered to check include non-microorganismal causes for diseases. And it boils down to whether you want to argue against dictionaries or just go with the common use of words.
LOL… Note how it does not mention alcoholism. Look, folks, there is no reason what so ever to buy into the disease model of alcoholism. None. It does nothing to facilitate treatment. It calls you sick when you don’t have to accept that paradigm. It is not any better than labeling someone with a drinking problem as morally deficient. People need not run about their entire lives professing “I have a rehabilitating disease called alcoholism.” It’s not necessary.
2 Likes
I don’t find that angle of approach very useful. By insisting on the treatment aspect, we should not call Alzheimer’s a disease, as imposing the disease model on the condition does nothing to facilitate treatment (as there is none). As far as Alzheimer’s is concerned, all you can do (for now) is to slow the progress with drugs (which is not treatment per se) and give the best care you can for the individual to have a best possible life. This is to some extent analogous to how you would approach alcoholism. As far as alcoholism goes, while there is no treatment as such, there exist drugs that can be used for making alcohol intake a very unpleasant experience (for example antabuse). These drugs do not treat the condition, but they can help manage it. But first and foremost what you can do is to give the best care you can to prevent progress and relapse, preventing the aspects “that impairs normal functioning” from returning. In short, set up the conditions for the alcoholic to cope in his/her daily life, to live with the condition, and reduce the odds of relapses.
1 Like
IMO - I don’t give two shits whether addiction is called disease or not. But if calling it that got some folks some help / support then excellent.
2 Likes
Agree withall your points, except that I add that there is a role for “common sense” medicine. I believe that healthy nutrition, abstaining from sugar, following electrolytes, lots of protein, complex carbohydrates, and dietary fiber give the alcoholic’s body the resources to heal from the damage done by alcohol.
I do believe that recovery from alcohol abuse will happen quicker if the body gets what it needs.
You don’t get to pair alcoholism with Alzheimer’s., Shheesh this is never-ending. Diabetes, cancer, AIDS, next you will be citing stubbed toes and malaria. Give it a rest. False equivalencies and fallacious reasoning. You can’t pair it with known diseases until first demonstrating it is a disease.
As do all the previously mentioned counseling techniques., As does the choice to stop drinking, You are not saying anything.,Frankly speaking, so does finding Jesus. Finding Jesus has just as high of a success rate as any other form of treatment.
There are many choices for managing the condition. The medical model is neither the most successful nor the best.
And none of this requires one to adopt the disease model of alcoholism.
Again… This does not require one adopt the disease model.
Let’s see what doctors call it, then. Here’s how the clinical practice of the Yale School of Medicine describe alcholism/alcohol use disorder:
Alcohol Use Disorder
- Chronic brain disease characterized by continued alcohol use despite harmful consequences
- Symptoms include loss of control over alcohol use; social, economic, or health problems caused by drinking
- Treatments include medication, counseling, and behavioral therapy
- Involves Addiction Medicine and Psychiatry
Alcohol use disorder is a medical condition. It’s a disease of brain function and requires medical and psychological treatments to control it.
The wikipedia entry for alcoholism states that
Within the medical and scientific communities, there is a broad consensus regarding alcoholism as a disease state. For example, the American Medical Association considers alcohol a drug and states that “drug addiction is a chronic, relapsing brain disease characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use despite often devastating consequences. It results from a complex interplay of biological vulnerability, environmental exposure, and developmental factors (e.g., stage of brain maturity).”[185]
While Wikipedia is not an argument in itself, it cites research (archived version on Wayback Machine). There are other similar publications to be found if you search. In other words, medical research calls alcoholism a disease (of the brain), respected clinics call it a disease, other respected medical authorities in other non-english speaking countries call alcoholism a disease, alchoholism matches the dictionary definitions of disease. Thus, I’m inclined to believe the medical experts and say that yes, alcoholism sure looks like a disease.
1 Like
Oh Jesus, lets not hear what doctors say! That is the whole point of this conversation. I do not buy into the medical model of addiction,. Your like a Christian arguing in a circle. Let’s see what the bible says.
We are not arguing ADDICTION is not a thing AUD is addiction not Alcoholism. Alcoholism is an umbrella term encompassing drinking behavior. You need to read the article.
“AUD is not due to an individual’s lack of self-discipline or resolve. Rather, it is a brain disease that can be inherited. Long-term alcohol use can produce changes in the brain that can cause people to crave alcohol, lose control of their drinking and require greater quantities of alcohol to achieve its desired effects.” (This is Addiction.)
Again AUD. This is a long-term result of drinking behavior. This is addiction,
“What Is the Difference Between Alcoholism and Alcohol Use Disorder? Alcohol use disorder is a diagnosis used by medical professionals to describe someone with an alcohol problem to varying degrees. Alcoholism is a non-medical term used most often in everyday language and within the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous.”
Alcoholism is not a disease. AUD is a physical condition that is the direct result of drinking and diagnosed by a doctor. Healt problems directly related to drinking behavior.
There are some key differences between the DSM-5 criteria for alcohol use disorder and AA’s view of alcoholism:
DSM-5 defines alcohol use disorder as a clinically significant pattern of alcohol use that leads to impairment or distress. It views alcoholism as a spectrum from mild to severe based on the number of diagnostic criteria met (out of 11). AA views alcoholism as an all-or-nothing disease that is progressive and fatal if left untreated. You’re either alcoholic or you’re not. You’re not a 5/10 in AA. And the treatment is the same for every alcoholic. Trust God, clean house and help others.
DSM-5 criteria focus on behavioral signs like inability to cut down drinking, tolerance, withdrawal symptoms, etc. AA includes the spiritual/emotional aspects like loss of control, unmanageability of life, and defects of character like dishonesty and selfishness as key parts of the illness.
DSM-5 has gradations of remission from early to sustained, based on how long the criteria have not been met. AA sees recovery as an ongoing process with complete abstinence as the goal, not just reduction in harmful drinking. On top of that our success metrics are things like “are you happy, have you made amends, are you helping others,” not “Did you cut down on your clinically harmful drinking?”
DSM-5 provides clinical diagnostic criteria that are statistically measurable, whereas in AA we’re alcoholics if we relate to the stories of the other people in the room. No one can diagnose you with alcoholism but you.
None of the clinical treatments for AUD include finding a higher power. There’s no medical treatment for dishonesty and selfishness.
The disease model is not needed for treatment of alcoholism. AUD is not the same thing.
You do not accept alcoholism as a disease. The medical expertise seems to accept it. Given the choice between believing what I can find of medical research and information+advice from governmental health organisations (not just US based ones) and something I read on a web forum, I decide to base my opinion on what the medical experts say.
You are of course welcome to have your view on stuff, but that doesn’t mean the entire internet agrees or have to agree with you. And given that there seems to be some sort of concensus on the matter among medical experts, you don’t get do idiot explain people that disagree with you. If you have weighty research in favour of your view, you’re of course welcome to present it.
2 Likes
AUD is the medical diagnosis, not Alcoholism. This is dependency and addiction. Most “Alcoholics” are never diagnosed as such. They hold down jobs, have families, and function normally in society.
It gets worse… Most heavy drinkers, people who drink to get drunk, are not alcoholics.
Conclusion
Most excessive drinkers (90%) did not meet the criteria for alcohol dependence. A comprehensive approach to reducing excessive drinking that emphasizes evidence-based policy strategies and clinical preventive services could have an impact on reducing excessive drinking in addition to focusing on the implementation of addiction treatment services.