Is there anything in the Gospels of the Bible that can be verified?

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As the tile says: I have been trying to figure out if there are ANY parts of the Bible that have historically verifiable facts and I started with the 4 Gospels. I have empty hands.

Further, I know of several stories where the historical record either doesn’t record the event, or records it differently - different enough to make one think it is made up.

I did a Google search and I came back with links to religious webpages - which I don’t trust. I looked up Wikipedia and it sounds like the editors finally deferred to “experts” who are basically religious and the article only says that there are only 2 items “experts” agree on: The baptism and the crucifixion.

But my understanding is that neither of those appears anywhere in the historical record. So how can there be agreement?

So, does anyone know if there is anything in the 4 Gospels that has been verified?

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Of course there are verified things, the existence of Jerusalem and the Sadducees and Pharisees, the existence of Samaria and Samaritans and feuding between them and the Jews, The existence of Bethlehem, Nazareth (as a farmstead) carpenters, “doctors”, lepers etc. all are historical.

Exactly the same way that Dickins got so many details about London, gin palaces, pickpockets, crooked lawyers etc. correct in Oliver Twist, or Great Expectations.

The question I think you are asking is there any historical, contemporary independent verification for the existence of the divine, re-animated jesus figure as described in the gospels?

No, there is not one corroboration.

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha… What evidence do you imagine these experts have to verify these accounts? Please cite any extrabiblical evidence or eyewitness accounts of the crucifixion or baptism. (I happen to know that the “experts” can not even decide when Jesus was crucified, how many days he was on the pole. Or if it was a cross or a tree that he was tied to?

Nothing was written about the life of Jesus until a generation after is supposed death. NOTHING. There is no ‘evidence,’ outside of stories from biblical sources.

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I apologize for my bad wording. I think the question I am trying to get answered is: Are there any events depicted in the Bible that can be independently verified so as the establish the Bible as having SOME credibility.

I think the answer is No! Further, there are events depicted in the Bible that are inaccurately depicted according to history. That should mean that the Bible can NOT be used a reliable document.

[quote=“Cognostic, post:3, topic:5584”]
What evidence do you imagine these experts have to verify these accounts? [/quote]

That was the point I was trying to make - that some Wikipedia editors have corrupted the article. What I know about the way Wikipedia works is that they would have to cite some external source for such a statement - and I have no doubt there are an abundance of articles and books to cite to that effect.

Further, that anyone trying to edit the article is in for an extended fight because this is part of their core beliefs.

BTW, here is the article in question: Wikipedia: Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

I am not up to the task of editing such an article, but perhaps there are some here who are?

Ultimately what I want to do is make a statement to the effect that there is nothing in the Bible that can be relied on a being credible. What I don’t want to happen is for someone to find a passage that is verifiable and short circuit things.

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I gave you several examples of verifiable biblical references. What exactly do you want?

Here is a clue there is absolutely no corroborated contemporary references to the jesus figure outside the “gospels” and the Pauline texts. The gospels are all hearsay, as is all the Pauline texts except when they rely on his “visions”.

So, please state exactly a passage in the gospels you want to be verified or disproved.

The bible consists of multiple books and texts over 1500 years, some of it can be confirmed by archeology, some of it can be cast into doubt by archeology, paleontology, biology, cosmology etc. What EXACTLY are you wanting?

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That depends, do you think the entirely accurate portrayal of NYC in the Spiderman films, lends credibility to the story that portrays Spiderman as a real person?

Again, reliable in what way?

Indeed, it’s worth always remembering that biblical scholars also offer subjective opinions, based on their subjective religious beliefs.

That isn’t true though? You seem to be creating a false dichotomy, where the bible is either reliable and credible or is not, rather than some of it being reliable or credible and some of it not.

Even if it were true?

Listen to @Old_man_shouts_at_cl , he’s bang on the money here.

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The existence of Pontius Pilate has been confirmed, as a stone was found which had engraved writings on it.

The idea that Jesus was ridiculed may have been confirmed if one considers the Alexamenos Graffito (see below):

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The Alexamenos Graffito possibly dates to the early 2nd Century, and depicts a young man worshipping a person who is being crucified, and the caption says: “Alexamenos worships his god.”

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But it would not be a confirmation of Jesus being ridiculed. It is a confirmation that Christian beliefs were being ridiculed. The graffiti has been dated 200 AD 160 years after Jesus might have existed. " The image seems to show a young man worshipping a crucified, donkey-headed figure. The Greek inscription approximately translates to "Alexamenos worships his god. The graffito was apparently meant to mock a Christian named Alexamenos. Alexamenos graffito - Wikipedia

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I agree with you, I should have been a little more specific.

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This question has a simple one word answer, NO.

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An idea–about the historicity of the gospels–occurred to me . . . although it’s speculation, and I have no evidence.

I have wondered if the Mesopotamian origins of the flood myth might be tied in with the paleoindians crossing Beringea into North America, and the great flood that destroyed the world might be a vague, cultural memory of Beringea being flooded at the end of the last major Ice Age.

An entire, fertile land was destroyed by being flooded, Beringea was a refugia for both people and a large variety of animals, and there is some archeological evidence that the people in the area used boats.

Problems with this idea are that I imagine Beringia flooded gradually rather than quickly, and the people in that time and place only had domesticated dogs, and no other domestic animals (except for maybe the horse, but this is unlikely).

We do know that certain legends which predate the end of the last Ice Age occur in Europe, Asia, and North America . . . if we consider The Cosmic Hunt story.

I also wonder if the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is the remnants of a story about a power struggle between hunter-gatherers and new farmers at the very begining of agriculture.

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Sure, cites that existed. But just because Troy existed does not mean that Perseus cut the head of Medusa and turned the Krakin to stone.

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I Agree 100%. 20 characters.

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I recently had a “discussion” with a theist who pointed to Tacitus as verifying the execution of Jesus. If you muck around in Wikipedia (yeah, I know!) the short version is that he mentions the execution, but it is unclear if he is reporting on an actual event or what early christians believed, so the citation is disputed as verifying the actual event. Having read what Wikipedia has for the translation, I am convinced it’s unclear what he was reporting on.

Therefore, my stance remains that the Bible doesn’t have anything verified (except for cities, lakes, etc.) stands. I suppose I should modify this to refer to events of significance, but I’m unsure how to word this in a way that is likely to influence anyone who might be influenceable.

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It doesn’t matter if the existence of the character (now) called Jesus, from the gospel myths was real. The fact is that even were that existence established as objective fact, then this “fact” (alone) would not in any way objectively evidence he was anything but human.

Only closed minded apologists who start with blind belief, then bend all facts to that belief, think the existence of a human in ancient Palestine, is a significant step in verifying those superstitious beliefs.

Demonstrate some objective evidence that a deity is even possible, otherwise they are “building their pyramid on soft sand”.

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Tacitus was writing about events in 64CE, to be precise the Great Fire of Rome and where a jewish sect (chrestus worshippers) were blamed for setting the fire.

Tacitus was reporting the beliefs of Christians, probably not those that existed before he was born, but the beliefs of contemporaries.
I have debunked the evangelist and moronic arguments about Tacitus many times on these pages…but hey ho…here we go again.

Tacitus and that Jesus Passage:

Tacitus was a Roman Historian writing at the turn of the 1st Century CE, i.e between 90CE and 120CE. Many theists make much of a brief mention of a “Chrestus” and use it to bolster their beliefs without ever realising what the passage actually says.

Just to make sure no fantasy mad theist argues the point here is the passage in English and Latin:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.”

In Latin: ergo abolendo rumori Nero subdidit reos et quaesitissimis poenis adfecit, quos per flagitia invisos vulgus Chrestianos appellabat. auctor nominis eius Christus Tibero imperitante per procuratorem Pontium Pilatum supplicio adfectus erat; repressaque in praesens exitiabilis superstitio rursum erumpebat, non modo per Iudaeam, originem eius mali, sed per urbem etiam, quo cuncta undique atrocia aut pudenda confluunt celebranturque. igitur primum correpti qui fatebantur, deinde indicio eorum multitudo ingens haud proinde in crimine incendii quam odio humani generis convicti sunt. [Wiki]

The most anyone can get out of this rather inaccurate passage (Pilate was Prefect not Procurator and there was not an 'immense multitude" of christians anywhere much less in Rome in 60CE) Is that a Jewish Cult of Chrestus was in Rome in about 64CE according to reports some 30 - 50 years later.

Not very convincing evidence for a Jesus, even for a rabid theist now is it?

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