Is the New Testament made up?

COOL! I love this game. I’ll start!

I have an invisible blue universe-creating bunny living in my basement, and he grants wishes if you ask him nicely enough and if he determines you deserve the wish. Send me ten percent of your income every month, and I will forward your wishes to him, as I am the only mortal human with whom he will communicate. His name is Percy, by the way. And if you chant his name while meditating and sending out good vibes, it will help you get your wish granted.

So, do you want to just send me cash (preferred method), or would PayPal be okay?

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The Gospels are third-person accounts. That disqualifies them as evidence anywhere. Science tells us that ‘First-person’ accounts are not reliable and you want to pretend that third-person accounts are reliable? Are you insane? Do you even know the difference?

Eyewitness testimony is historically among the most convincing forms of evidence in criminal trials (e.g. Benton, Ross, Bradshaw, Thomas, & Bradshaw, 2006). Probably only a suspect’s signed confession can further convince a jury about that individual’s guilt. But the Gospels are NOT eyewitness accounts. And we know today that relying on eyewitness accounts is an error. People make mistakes, serious mistakes.

Eyewitness testimony is more fallible than many people assume. The advent of DNA analysis in the late 1980s revolutionized forensic science, providing an unprecedented level of accuracy about the identity of actual perpetrators versus innocent people falsely accused of a crime. DNA testing led to the review of many settled cases. According to the Innocence Project , 358 people who had been convicted and sentenced to death since 1989 have been exonerated through DNA evidence. Of these, 71% had been convicted through eyewitness misidentification and had served an average of 14 years in prison before exoneration.

So, even if Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John had met Jesus and actually wrote the gospels, which they did not, the gospels would not be believable. They would be no different than the Oddesy. Just a story.

What you have with the Gospels is hearsay. Information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate anything; rumor, and nothing more. "Chinese Whispers’ that managed to make it into a written form as a response to the Marcionites.

There is no category error. The Bible is a collection of STORIES. Nothing more. And there is no corroborating evidence for the existence of your Jesus character.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY FIRST PERSON ACCOUNTS OF ALIEN ABDUCTION WE HAVE?
Are you gullible enough to believe accounts of ‘first person alien contact there are? They were there, they experienced the anal probe, they were cut apart and put back together, they have bits of alien technology in their brains, they can communicate with aliens, have sex with them, have alien babies, have fingers dissolved by alien death rays,’ and more. You really think all these stories, set in a very real time, in a very real place, are true? There is more evidence for these stories than for yours. The people are actually here. Aliens might actually… perhaps… it might be possible … for some sort of alien thing to exist. There is no such evidence leading to such a strong conclusion for your god. NONE.

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That is a claim. And one, that I demonstrated in my first reply is false. It is a claim without foundation for the reasons I stated.

Again a claim. As you gave examples that convince you. Not me, nor any serious historian that I know.

A claim that is patent nonsense. The contradictions between the synoptics written for different audiences and mostly copied from a single, flawed, source are evidence that your grandiose claim is just that. An empty claim.

Another claim that does not bear analysis. Characters jump out of all sorts of books and records. They are not evidence of veracity.

Oh, at last, a claim with some merit, however the 1st century was one of the earliest most recorded eras in classical history. And yet, not one corroborative mention of the jesus figure as described in the gospels in the first 50 years of that century. Not one. Even by those who would have been expected to write of such a person.
Yes, I can give you a list.

Moreover there are 13 other “magical” messiahs recorded in that time by reliable witnesses, contemporary witnesses. Some of these “Messiahs” were “born of virgins”, “raised the dead” and performed other “miracles” .
Again I will supply a list on request and where you can find them referenced.

A claim with good reason, however not reasons that are historically accurate. . And a claim that I do not doubt bearing in mind your display of self indoctrination .

Revisit my first reply to your OP. I can also supply many more references to back up my criticisms. BTW I never said “fictional” , I would use plagiarised as a better description.

I am not sure you know the difference as I have highlighted above.

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Speaking of that … top 5 masturbation fantasies. GO!!!

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  2. Three crushes I had in grade 9 all at the same time.
  3. That hustler my friend showed me when I was six
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  5. Grade 9 English teacher. BAM BAM BAM!!! THANK YOU MAM!!!

Welcome back Dan. I hope you had a good week. I understand that with the internet and personal lives, it can sometimes take time to respond.

That is a very good place to dig down deep. First off, we need to agree on a standard for claims and evidence. As I pointed out in a previous post, how about we agree on the standards of a court of law?

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I guess this would be a good thread to post this:

image

As you can see, this Christian book about atheists includes the cannibal serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer (lower left corner) on a cover illustration grouped in with Bill Nye and George Carlin (among other scientists and philosophers).

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I actually purchased this book this morning (I’m a compulsive reader, and tend to buy books on impulse if one catches my eye), and Comfort really does try to link Atheism with people like Jeffrey Dahmer and Jim Jones.

He seems to spend much of the book refuting evolution (with the same vapid, outdated arguments that we’re all accustomed to hearing), and–after “refuting” evolution–leads into the idea that the only reason why people should behave with morality and a sense of ethics is out of fear of eternal torture in an afterlife vs. an eternal reward.

I need to read the book further, so keep in mind that I may revise these criticisms if it seems that I took some of his points out of context.

I’ll get back to you guys if anyone’s interested in how atheism turns you into a cannibal serial killer and/or an orchestrator of mass suicides.

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So you actually believe the following events as depicted in the new testament really happened?

  • Jesus resurrecting Lazarus from the dead.
  • Graves opening up and zombies walking the streets of Jerusalem as Jesus died.
  • Day turning into night as Jesus died.
  • Jesus feeding 5000 people with two loaves and fishes.
  • Jesus walking on water.
  • Jesus cursing a fig tree.
  • Jesus “dying” and coming back to life.
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Which begs the question: Which of the two would you choose? Hmmm… :thinking::thinking::thinking:… That’s a toughie… :thinking::thinking:… Decisions, decisions… :thinking:

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Ya know, something just occurred to me. In all fairness, it never did mention how big the fish or the loaves were. Just sayin’…

Well OF COURSE Jesus cursed the fig tree. That tree should have KNOWN Jesus was hungry, and Jesus was ENTITLED to having a fig WHENEVER HE WANTED IT! :weary::sob::weary::sob: (Jesus Christ… The most famous Millennial in all of history.)

(Edited by the will of God.)

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CONTINUING - JUST TO MAKE IT OBVIOUS

Jesus raised Naim from the dead.

Jesus first kills and then raises Jairus’s daughter from the dead. Mark 5:21

Jesus healing the blind by spitting in their eyes. Mark 8:23

Christ’s triumphal entry into Jerusalem (That no one ever wrote about. Not one external Biblical source.) Matthew 21:1-11; Mark 11:1-11; Luke 19:28-44; and John 12:12-19 (and yet so important all the gospels tell its story.)

Jesus healing a leper, Matthew 8, 1-4. It took us until the 1940s to cure it and we cured it with science and dapsone. Why didn’t Jesus just teach us to make dapsone?

Reattaching an ear to a slave. Luke 51-53

That he magically cured a bleeding woman? Mark 5:21–43

Healing of the man with a withered hand. So, Jesus could grow back limbs if he wanted to?

Healing the deaf?

Exorcising DEMONS (Hooogy Booogy Wooogy BOO!) (Matthew 8:16).
Curing men with unclean spirits. (Mark 1:23-26)(Luke 4:41)
Curing a boy possessed by a demon. (Matthew 17:17-18)

You actually believe this bullshit? I want you in my congregation. I have a bridge of salvation I can sell you, a really cheap, one-time offer, limited supply, only 144,000 remain. Get them before Jesus returns. You will be glad you did.

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This is for EVERYBODY

Oh shit… Another something just now occurred to me. So damn obvious it was glaringly easy to almost totally miss it. Riddle me this, Batman…

The ENTIRE BIBLE (OT and NT combined) is supposedly THE “Perfect Word of God” according to a majority of Christians out there. (Yes, there are exceptions.) Anyway, that means EVERYTHING in the bible is suppose to be regarded as one THOUSAND percent accurate and true. Should never be questioned. God said it, Man wrote it, end of story. NOBODY can ever change The Word of GOD! (I could go on and on, but you get my point.)

That being said, we all know there are other stories and events in the bible that are BY FAR waaaay more outlandish and more questionable than the whole Gospels/Jesus story, right? Just right off the top of my head, the Creation sequence, Adam and Eve and a talking snake, Noah’s Ark, and Jonah and the Whale are just a few that stand out. And these are among many other such crackpot stories that constitute THE VERY FOUNDATION of the bible and Christian faith. As such, that foundation is TERRIBLY fractured and unstable, in my humble opinion. (Hell, I’d even go as far to say it is damn near quicksand.) Meaning, anything else built on top of it is pretty much worthless. (See where I’m going with this yet?)

So, basically, here we are on a ship with water gushing into several large holes in the hull (OT; Foundation) below the waterline. But nobody seems too concerned about that. Meanwhile, several decks above the waterline in the First Class areas (Gospels; Jesus story), the crew is more concerned about fixing the leaky faucets in the Captain’s bathroom, while at the same time using beautiful decor, soothing music, and fine food to distract the passengers from the trouble below-decks. About the only thing saving the ship are the bilge pumps (Apologists: Televangelists) working nonstop 24/7 to barely keep the incoming water from slowly dragging the vessel to the bottom.

In other words, why the hell does anybody give a shit about Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, when the very foundation on which they are built is complete unadultrated nonsense? Just curious…

(Edited in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.)

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Why’d the Buddha and his followers gaze into space time?

Peer pressure. :joy: nice, right? Thought of that one while I was concentrating on the toilet.

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It is not that I can prove the bible is fiction, the claimant (almost every christian) can not prove it true.

  1. There are no contemporary accounts.

  2. The earliest writings for the bible were put to paper at least one entire generation after his death. There is zero eyewitness testimony.

  3. The First Council of Nicaea (AD 325) First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia was a council that collected all they knew and revised, discarded, or included to be the bible. It was done with the express intent of promoting the life and death of jesus.

  4. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were anonymous, they were not written by any of those four disciples. Only their names were assigned to those four books. Additionally, the first three (Matthew, Mark, Luke) are known as the “synoptic gospels” because their stories lined up. But John was not in synch with the previous three stories. It told a different story, and offered contradictions.

From Primary Sources - "agony In The Garden" | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS

“Agony in the Garden”

These two accounts of the betrayal and arrest of Jesus illustrate the different images of Jesus in the gospels of Mark and Luke.

Mark 14.32 - 50

Jesus Prays in Gethsemane

32 And they went to a place which was called Gethsem’ane; and he said to his disciples, “Sit here, while I pray.” 33 And he took with him Peter and James and John, and began to be greatly distressed and troubled. 34 And he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch.” 35 And going a little farther, he fell on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36 And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt.” 37 And he came and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter, “Simon, are you asleep? Could you not watch one hour? 38 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 39 And again he went away and prayed, saying the same words. 40 And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were very heavy; and they did not know what to answer him. 41 And he came the third time, and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? It is enough; the hour has come; the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand.”

43 And immediately, while he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. 44 Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him and lead him away under guard.” 45 And when he came, he went up to him at once, and said, “Master!” And he kissed him. 46 And they laid hands on him and seized him.

47But one of those who stood by drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 48 And Jesus said to them, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? 49 Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. But let the scriptures be fulfilled.” 50 And they all forsook him, and fled.

John 18.1- 12

The Betrayal and Arrest of Jesus

1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples across the Kidron valley, where there was a garden, which he and his disciples entered.2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas, procuring a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4 Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?” 5 They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6 When he said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Again he asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.” 8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.” 9 This was to fulfil the word which he had spoken, “Of those whom thou gavest me I lost not one.” 10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave and cut off his right ear. The slave’s name was Malchus. 11 Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup which the Father has given me?” 12 So the band of soldiers and their captain and the officers of the Jews seized Jesus and bound him.

All translations Revised Standard Version

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Why’d the detective dive into the ocean?

He wanted to get to the bottom of it.

Oh fuck, yeah. I’m on a roll tonight. Gunna quit my day job if I keep coming up with zingers like these :joy:

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Why’d the mortician go to sleep after a long day of work?

He was dead tired.

Bazinga :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

What did the one eyed pirate do after he cheated on his wife?

Tried to “patch” things up.

Ooff - badum ching :drum:

Claims VS Evidence:
CLAIM:

  1. A debatable statement. An assertion of truth.
  2. A statement that must be proved before it can be accepted as true. as true. (Proved is a ‘math’ construct. In reality, nothing is ‘proved.’ Things are ‘evidenced,’ and then ‘Independently Verified.’ )

EVIDENCE: Any factual information presented to support a claim.

Independent Verification: Verification and validation (V&V) performed by an organization that is technically, managerially, and financially independent of the development organization. (Some form of Verification or Validation ‘Outside the Bible or institutions with a vested interest in perpetuating religion.’)

A comprehensive review, analysis, and testing, (software and/or hardware), is performed by an objective third party to confirm (i.e., to verify) that the requirements are correctly defined, and to confirm (i.e., validate) that the system correctly implements the required functionality and security requirements. (Objective 3ed party: 'Outside the Bible or institutions perpetuating its interests.)

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Why was the horny squirrel so happy?

He busted a “nut” without ejaculating.

Hmm :face_with_monocle: I was on a roll.

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Why was the Evil One running from Jesus?

He was getting “exorcised”.

hiiiissssssssssssss I have deceived you all - hiss!!! A pox on you. Those who deny the … the one they call … hissss!!! This boy belongs to me!!! A pox on your eternal soul. All of you who deny the … the one … I spit on his holy name. I spit on his BOOK! I am the author of all lies. I am from the beginning a murderer and a liar. And so too do I lead you all away. AWAY from … from … His name I dare not speak … hisssss!!! I will burrow a hole in your heart like a worm inside your living soul - feeding you - feeding you lies upon which your immortal being will burn in the pits of smouldering ash and sulfur. All of those who deny HIM WORSHIP MEEEEEEEE a pox on your living souls. I WILL RETURN WITH SEVEN HEADS FROM THE PITS OF HELL AND I WILL REIGN FOR A THOUSAND YEARS WITH A MIGHTY FIST I WILL DEVOUR THE FAITHFUL MY ARMY WILL RISE AGAINST THE FAITHFUL AND YOU WILL BURN.

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: just kidding guys.

  • rat spit :rat: (hiss)