Identification preferences

…I can.

My personality or the way I was raised - I can fall pretty quickly into “belief”. I’ve trained myself to “wait a second- hold on - set this over here a minute”…

Funny because I do make life decisions based on evidence and my job before required a high level of analysis and organization. AND I love logic and argument.

My imagination is grand and vivid. Maybe it’s because once a “belief” is offered up, my imagination runs with it, a little movie in my head and I’m the “star”.

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You are confused. Agnosticism has nothing to do with 'belief." Agnostic is about knowledge, what you know. Knowledge being a subset of belief shades the question a bit. That which we accept as knowledge would be life altering were it proved to be wrong. That which we accept as knowledge is regarded as ‘true.’ "We believe it to be a true representation of the way things are in the world. A true and accurate representation of the reality around us.

Agnosticism is about Knowledge.

Atheism is about belief. There is no, “I don’t know.” There may be, “sometimes I believe and sometimes I don’t.” The question is binary.
You either believe the assertion “God exists” or you do not believe it.

If you believe the assertion “God exists”, then you are a theist. You are a theist if you belive this idea in any shape or form. (“I don’t know,” is not a response to the question, “What do you believe.” I did not ask you what you KNOW.")

It’s a bit like asking “Is it raining outside” and getting a response “It’s wet.”
What in the hell does that mean? Snow, hail, drizzle, foggy, sprinkle, storm, ocean mist? The response goes no where near answering the question.

Pure Agnostic makes no sense at all. Agnostics both believe and disbelieve in god claims.

Disagree… Lying implies intention to mislead. You are being hypercritical. The person you are talking to may not understand the distinction between Agnosticism and Atheism. Many people claim to be “Agnostic” and are not challenged with their assertion for no other reason than the person asking the question does not understand the distinction. So people get away with calling themselves Agnostic and it works until they run across someone like myself or (unfortunately you). I have an inkling that as harsh as I can be, many of my posts prove this… you breach the boundaries of insanity.

While I agree that people who call themselves “Agnostic” should be challenged, I regard the response as ignorance of the concepts and not ignorance of the person, lying, dishonesty, manipulation, or idiocy. And like I said, I can be pretty harsh.

I doubt you will get much support for such a critically suppressive opinion on the site. You battle will be up hill all the way and I seriously doubt you will convince a single person of your bigoted approach to others.

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Coincidentally, I emailed yesterday with the same suggestion

Hi. I would also add that in order for believers to claim they ‘know’, they have to redefine the word. This is not permissible in any other area of life but religious people think they can invent their own definition of words like ‘know’ and ‘truth’. Without veering away, a certain politician, who shall remain nameless, was not the first to introduce alternative truth. Believers have been confusing passionate belief with knowledge for thousands of years.

It sounds like you’re using an ontological argument for god’s existence but I would dispute your final assertion, that you speak from logic.

The existence of a God, deist or theist, is an extraordinary claim. It therefore requires extraordinary evidence. There is none. Therefore, logically, your position must be agnosticism. It is not possible to simply arrive at a belief in God using pure philosophy or logic. It can only be done by beginning from a position of belief and then seeking to justify that belief.

Furthermore, you use God with a capital G, suggesting that it is the Abrahamic God in which you believe. Why? Even if I grant you your logical and philosophical path, which I do not, it does not and cannot lead you to any specific god, only to a possibility that some form of deity might exist. That leaves all the hard work yet to be done.

"I think religions are always created by devil or Satan and never by God. God don’t create religions or do anything which cannot be objectively knowable".

Two questions here.
Why do you believe in the Devil? How can your logic or philosophy take you to such belief?
How can you possibly know what God does or does not do?

"I believe in miracles, mysterious occurrences and supernaturals. I don’t think everything can be understood through physics".

Whitefire13 has already answered you very well but i would like to add something.

You say that you believe in miracles. Belief, of course, is not the same as knowledge, but leaving that aside.
‘A miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws’ (I have used the Wikipedia definition for ease but feel free to offer a better one). That being so, when you hear of a miracle that seems to support your religious beliefs, you should ask yourself a simple question. Which is more likely in the face of what we know about the world, that the laws of nature and science have been suspended, in your favour, or that there has been a mistake or a deliberate attempt to lie?

And what of reports of miracles from other faiths? There is a Hindu guru alive today who claims to be able to fly and thousands of his followers attest that it is true. He utterly denies your God, so do you believe in him too?

In reality, you are simply trying to wrap up your belief in God in what you think are clever sounding words. I’m afraid you have yet to convince me.

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I am an agnostic atheist like @Whitefire13. I don’t believe in God, but do not know for sure if He/She/It eve exists. Then again, I don’t really care whether or not God is real or is imaginary, because God has no bearing on my life - whether he exists, or is simply a figment of human imagination.

A life free of (or from) both God and religion, is a life that is much less stressful and more enjoyable.

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I’m an agnostic; but I’m putting all of my chips on god isn’t real.

I guess that makes me an agnostic atheist.

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From everything my senses tell me and what is measurable and demonstrable, I’m betting it doesn’t. That’s my belief - a withholding and no evidence, so a dismissing of the claim.

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That’s about where I fall…same as you and @Nyarlathotep.

Then how would you make the assertion, “God is an ass?” I am of the opinion, judging by your posts, you have no idea at all what you believe.

Oh go on, name him.

Here in Oz we had Prime Minister John Howard, to name one of hundreds,.

When challenged about a broken campaign promise, he replied that it was not a core promise. So that was alright then.

In most other countries people might be shocked at such a statement. Here in Oz many of us are born with pretty good bullshit detectors. As a result many Aussies develop a healthy contempt for all professional politicians. :thinking:

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I agree, but I’d also put all my chips on theists incorrectly imagining this makes it a 50/50 premise.

They seem to argue deism, as if they’ve forgotten they’re putting their chips on one specific number, on a roulette wheel with thousands of options, that then subdivide into thousands more.

I always ask theists to demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity, but the truth is the question is incomplete. I should be asking demonstrate any objective evidence that your specific deity, is even possible?

Even that increases their chances to any deity in thousands, when the truth is it gets them no closer to Jesus or Allah or Yahweh, than it does to Zeus Thor Apollo or the Aztec god of gluttony.

Most theists don’t even grasp where the burden of proof lies, let alone the scope of it.

Like a Trump supporter who thinks the claim 52 failed legal challenges are evidence of judicial corruption or incompetence, is actually evidence, and not just wild biased conjecture.

As you should. Charlatans every one. :grin:

I get it now. You like to challenge people to justify their opinions and statements. It’s a fair enough ambition, even if it sometimes seems a little angry. I only hope I am able to stand up to your sword of bullsh1t when it swings my way :grin:

Poo flinging.

I never flush :toilet:. It keeps our relationship interesting. :heart:

Not to worry Paul. I am not the only one on the site calling fellow atheists on bullshit. My style may be a bit more flamboyant. I am of the opinion that an ignorant atheist, one making sweeping generalizations about theists and going on the attack without provocation just makes us all look bad.

Atheists, including myself, and not immune from fallacious assumptions and ignorance in at lease some areas. People who clearly understand the burden of proof and some basic fallacies of logic, and mostly on solid ground.

The average atheist on the site is not running about making audacious claims about theists. We welcome them and their viewpoints. We enjoy the debates. And we certainly like it when someone is bold enough to come on the site and ask legitimate questions because they have a genuine interest in understanding atheisms.

Your posts have appeared logical, well thought out, and personable from day one. I think I alluded to your style in my welcoming post.

As far as challenging goes, I expect to be challenged as well. When I overstep the bounds of good reason and logic, feel free to call me on it. (That’s what everyone else does.) LOL. We can all certainly learn from our mistakes.

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M’kay. I have no issue with that because sometimes I am angry.

Contrary to vociferous claims to the contrary, in my experience most atheists seem to have at least a bit of anger. At exactly what we are angry I think varies from person to person.

Theists like to claim the atheist is angry with god. I’m willing to concede that some of us may begin our atheism that way, but that we soon find new things at which to be angry . EG At the ignorant and mendacious believers we get here just for a start.

There may also be a cultural component. In Australia’s machismo and stoic culture, men tend to express anger over other negative emotions. It is not considered appropriate to express fear or sadness, so blokes become angry.

Conversely, it is not considered appropriate for women to express anger. But it’s perfectly OK for them to express fear or sadness, especially sadness. My ex wife would often cry to express anger and frustration.

It’s as if the word understatement was invented solely for that claim. :grin:

LOL… I have lots of fun.