I hate Putin because he shaved my cat!

Well if Iran’s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei condemns the USA :open_mouth: (shocker)… then I guess democracy must be wrong :woman_shrugging:t2:. I’m convinced :wink:

Are you saying that the 2014 Ukrainian coup, backed by the usa was democratic.

I didn’t say that anywhere…

BUT - to answer your question… the 2014 Ukrainian coup was a revolution.

Of a democratically elected President who…

Ran his election platform on the promise of continuing the relationship with Europe (the EU)…

AND when the time came to sign the agreement in Nov 2013 …

He backed out (to the surprise and shock of the electorate) …

Had a “back door deal with Putin” SO

The electorate started to protest 🪧 which grew into riots and civil disobedience and full blown overthrow (with the President running to Russia).

Revolution of the people restored the 2004 Constitution of Ukraine.

Russia :ru: is now where there is no freedom of religion, speech or protest.

USA :us: does have freedom of religion, speech and protest.

Ukraine is a democratic country being backed by other democratic countries.

Fuck your loaded question. :sunflower:

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Can you provide the evidence, that the former Ukrainian president had a back door deal with Putin.

Party of Regions (now dissolved pretty much). It’s platform…


Plenty of papers at the time where Yanukovych was more than EU friendly and working out the details of EU conditions for membership and keeping Ukraine :ukraine: “Ukrainian”.

BUT: didn’t offer this up???
Went behind their backs.

This ousting was sparked by Yanukovych’s last-minute[12] refusal to sign the agreement. Russia, Ukraine’s second largest trading partner, instead presented an association with the existing Customs Union of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan as an alternative.

Thank you for showing me the grey area

Nothing is ever black/white. Shades of grey.

Great, now our troops are going to fucking die for no good reason. Fuck Putin, and fuck the USSR.

Geniune freedom?

I suggest you read up on some history. WW2 actually began when Austria was annexed by Germany. The reasoning and excuse was identical to what Putin is saying, that the peoples were the same, historically they shared the same culture and history.

Once Germany consolidated Austria, they turned their attention to Poland, and invaded that nation (along with Russia from the east). And once Poland, Germany invaded other nations.

This is the classic example of the Camel’s nose.

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It’s always a balancing act of response.

Not react.

Response.

The EU and NATO have been responding. Had Putin limited his “invasion” to just the regions he claimed (liked the Crimea), most likely, it would have remained there without world response. Tough for Ukraine, but they were regions that were definitely “fighting” and separatists- BUT to go for the Ukraine outside those regions. Pretty clear cut what Putin is up to.

Lol

Pravda (nuf said)

How the fuck does this headline play??? Do Russians (behind the Putin curtain) believe this guy was a victim?

I tried checking Pravda throughout - but so much is Russian. Whatever we’re getting in English is mind-numbing stupidity.

Quote from above link: Ukraine’s President Victor Yanukovych was toppled in an illegal coup. This suggests that everything that has been happening in Ukraine up until this moment is illegitimate.
Читайте больше на Russia's resolute action to coerce Ukraine to peace was inevitable

What over two decades of absolute “power” does to a person.

Quote: Russia has made its choice in favor of democracy. Fourteen years ago, independently, without any pressure from outside, it made that decision in the interests of itself and interests of its people — of its citizens. This is our final choice, and we have no way back. There can be no return to what we used to have before. And the guarantee for this is the choice of the Russian people, themselves. No, guarantees from outside cannot be provided. This is impossible. It would be impossible for Russia today. Any kind of turn towards totalitarianism for Russia would be impossible, due to the condition of the Russian society.“ — Vladimir Putin Joint press conference with President George Bush in 2005, Slovakia http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2005/02/20050224-9.html 2000 - 2005

Source: Vladimir Putin quote: Russia has made its choice in favor of democracy. Fourteen … | Quotes of famous people

I will recall once more Russia’s most recent history. Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century. As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and compatriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself. Individual savings were depreciated, and old ideals destroyed. Many institutions were disbanded or reformed carelessly. Terrorist intervention and the Khasavyurt capitulation that followed damaged the country’s integrity. Oligarchic groups — possessing absolute control over information channels — served exclusively their own corporate interests. Mass poverty began to be seen as the norm. And all this was happening against the backdrop of a dramatic economic downturn, unstable finances, and the paralysis of the social sphere. Many thought or seemed to think at the time that our young democracy was not a continuation of Russian statehood, but its ultimate collapse, the prolonged agony of the Soviet system. But they were mistaken. That was precisely the period when the significant developments took place in Russia. Our society was generating not only the energy of self-preservation, but also the will for a new and free life.“ — Vladimir Putin Kremlin RU, http://kremlin.ru/eng/speeches/2005/04/25/2031_type70029type82912_87086.shtml (25 April 2005) 2000 - 2005

Source: Vladimir Putin quotes (106 quotes) | Quotes of famous people

AND finally….

Ukraine is an independent, sovereign state and will choose its own path to peace and security… . . Such a conversation would be entirely appropriate and entirely possible. I certainly don’t see there being anything particularly tricky here, anything that need or that could cast a shadow over relations between Russia and Ukraine.“ — Vladimir Putin About Ukraine seeking membership in Nato, after the Nato–Russia Council was created at the Nato summit in Rome, May 28, 2002. http://www.usubc.org/keyissues/russia_reset040109.php On Ukraine

Source: Vladimir Putin quotes (106 quotes) | Quotes of famous people

Corporations pulling back from doing business with Russia:

Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, Roku, YouTube, BP, Equinor, Exxon, Shell, TotalEnergies, Mastercard, Visa, DirectTV, Disney, WarnerMedia, Maersk, MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company.

Good for them.

I know how and why WWll started, I don’t need history lessons on the subject. If this is just like that, then the US should do what it can to assist Ukraine without putting our troops in harm’s way. We only entered WWll when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and invaded the Phillipines.
That fucking clown in the white house is going to get members of our military killed, just like he did in that clustrfuck of an exit from Afghanistan.
The US is not the head of the “world police”, NATO and the fucking UN need to do something other than send Putin a strongly worded letter, they’re both fucking pathetic.
If the US is supposed to help clean up this fucking mess, then the UK and Australia better send in their military alongside ours. And don’t forget France also, the only thing they’re good at doing is surrendering.
That’s my 2 cents worth.

Was It Over When The Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell No!

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My point is that in each example of Germany and Russia, attempts at world conquest begins by attempting to annex other nations, then escalating to getting bolder and finally global war. If a strong response does not happen, then after Ukraine, it could be another former soviet state such as Estonia, and so on and so on.

You balk at sending troops to Poland. But if not, then one day the Russians may be holding a celebration march down Constitution Avenue.

You stand up to bullies by staring them in the eyes and saying “don’t even start that shit”.

And causing thousands of Nazi casualties during 6 years of solid resistance. Facilitating the Dunkirk landings by sabotage, misdirection, and frontal (often suicidal) attacks on Nazi installations by the Maquis.

Despite Nazi reprisals which included the murder and destruction of an entire village. Numerous raids and “rolling up” of networks the French persisted saving countless jews, thousands of Allied servicemen and preventing even more massive loss of life on D-Day and beyond.

Don’t be a complete prick, MacCabre.

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Putin made the move to invade Ukraine simply because he can.

If he took the measure of those countries responsible for responding and found them to be wanting, I’d be interested in the reasons that he wouldn’t continue to roll the other buffer countries back up for the same rationale.

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GERMANS? He’s on a roll!