God is Not Incompatibile With a Rational Explanation of Creation of Man

Zionism began in late nineteenth century Europe as a reaction to long centuries of anti- Semitism. The Russian anti-Jewish pogroms that began in 1881 and continued in waves through 1920 stimulated both emigration to safer locations and a strengthening sense among European Jews that they needed their own homeland.

The Jews knew. Theodor Herzl (1860-1904) turned his energies toward establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine.


BUT Christians took a “spiritual” meaning to those prophecies…

then what of the numerous prophecies of the Old Testament, many of which predicted the eventual restoration and glorification of the Jewish nation? In order to account for these prophecies while at the same time condemning the Jews, Christian leaders proposed that because of the Jews’ culpability in the crucifixion, they were supplanted in God’s economy by the Christian Church. All the prophecies in both the Old and New Testament that spoke of Israel’s future redemption were in fact referring metaphorically to the “New Israel”—i.e., the Church.

UNTIL,

  • the very persecution of Jews in Europe led some Christians of conscience to react against it. When
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British Foreign Secretary Lord Arthur Balfour led the effort to support a Jewish homeland in Palestine, he declared, “The treatment of the [Jewish] race has been a disgrace to Christendom.”21 Finally, the emergence of dispensational premillennialism (see above) led to some believers seeing Jews (and later, the nation of Israel) as still in God’s program and thus worthy of support.
This phenomenon, along with similar trends toward restoration of the Jews throughout history, led to the idea of Christian Zionism—i.e., a belief that Christians should support the Jews having a homeland in Palestine.*

dispensational premillennialism. The argument of this school of interpretation is that restoration of the Jews to Palestine is a prerequisite for the end times program to occur.

AND
…some insisting that Greater Israel is a prerequisite to his return, and others believing that the Israel of the Tribulation will have far less territory than how the Bible describes the kingdom of Solomon.
From this ancient theological argument came the policy trends that eventuated in modern Zionism and the creation of the State of Israel. Dispensational premillennialists— whose predecessors in generations past continually foresaw the return of Christ in their own day—remain excited about the existence of the Jewish state, because it seems to them to be a clear sign of the impending apocalypse

——
Oh and Muslims:
following a cataclysmic battle (equated with Armageddon) between the faithful Muslims and the forces of the Antichrist (ad-Dajjal). Jesus, the Son of Mary (Isa Al- Maseeh) also figures prominently in Islamic eschatology, because he descends to earth in advance of the Mahdi in order to encourage the faithful, demonstrate to Christians and Jews that they have erred, and kill ad-Dajjal. Finally there is reference to a figure known as Sufyani, which some believe will be an Islamic hero in the end times, while others see him as a villainous anti-hero. Together these major events are called the Greater Signs.

Influenced heavily by regional resentment at the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, recent Islamic apocalyptic writing is characterized by an extreme anti- Semitism. The bitter verbiage that results emanates not only from what many perceive as ill- treatment of Palestinian Muslims, but also the greater crime of taking land that was once Muslim and making it non-Muslim…

*…that the end times are now. Writers point to the series of wars involving Byzantines (i.e., the West) and Muslims.
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These include the two world wars, the Gulf War, the war in Bosnia, and, of course, current operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Together, these conflicts prove both the global conspiracy against Islam and the impending nature of the apocalypse.
“All of these wars were incited by the secret Jewish world government under the leadership of the Antichrist, with the aim of uprooting Islamic societies or even Islamic blocs of peoples in Europe so that they would not have an independent state, so that their governments could return to the shari’a someday. Since the Kuwaiti war between the Byzantines and the Muslims was the first apocalyptic war, it was one of the signs.”*

AND Hamas The writings of radical Muslim apocalyptists have clearly informed and motivated the founders of Hamas. Indeed, the language of the founding Charter is very similar to the didactic sermonizing found in recent works about the end times HOWEVER Both fundamentalist and moderate trends are detectable within Hamas today, and apocalyptic anticipation must now contend with the duller realities of day-to-day administration

The point???

The three Abrahamic faiths include eschatologies that impact our world. All three religions birthed prophecies that predicted an end to human history. It is not the prophets themselves—from Isaiah to John to Muhammad—who command our attention but rather the schools of interpretation that followed
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Now myself, it’s a fucking stretch to call those guys “prophets” - especially when you have a bunch of folks running around, working diligently, to make what they believe happen in reality.

Why don’t you just assign the common and well known label “woman” instead of using such cryptic word salad?

And the bible is incorrect. Just examine and male and you will discover he is not missing that rib.

Then whey did you not assign the well known label of “Theory of Evolution” instead of using such cryptic word salad?

Of all the establish scientific theories, the Theory of Evolution is on the strongest bedrock. The evidence supports it, and many other sciences (especially genetics, cosmology, and geology) collaborate evolution. The bible is flatly wrong about all of that.

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Nutty as a fruitcake.

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Oh good, I was hoping someone else would say it. Where do they get this nonsense from?

The sporadic “Capitalized” letters are often a heads up… :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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Indecipherable gibberish of course, but what do we imagine is the significance of the random capital letters?

If I’m honest, whenever I see random capital letters, it usually bodes badly for the rationale behind the post.

As my father used to say … “clear as mud”.

@Joygirl2 Please climb down from whatever imaginary horse you are straddling and use language that is precise and what can be comprehended. You are using theistic buzzwords and a collage of words that make no sense.

That may work in a congregation where all are eager supplicants hanging onto the ravings of a foaming-at-the-mouth preacher, but most of us just don’t buy into that con game, and prefer logical and rational words and phrases.

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To put it in a More Accurate perspective, you are simply exercising your Natural Right and Power to Exercise your desire and your wills over any subject SEEN in this world/Nature which you have the ability to so exercise your personal power.

So, this is not a problem or an issue

Your Answer here supports what I would have said which is "Any who freely offers any testimony of a matter, Is Free to give his testimony in the way and manner He Deems Fit"!

Ding ding! Deviation from Subject!

We are not talking about “the Purchase and the buyers”

We are talking about the “Factory and the Creation Process”!

As I said up, “He who voluntarily offers up Testimony, is Free to give his testimony in any way and manner He deems Fit” Exactly as we all do here in nairaland. We are all volunteering our testimonies too.

Truly, The God did not declare the woman lower than the man IT IS RATHER THE PERMANENT ACTION WHICH HE IMPLEMENTED OVER HER which showed us that she was lowered.

Exactly as when a child/Student is Whipped, he is lowered at that time and the child looses a lot of Benefits (Rights) or Criminal.

Everyone sees the Loss of Rights and Acts on it and at that time the offending child and criminal is unable to do anything about it.

So also is the woman’s lowering and there is almost nothing (But One) that she can do to alter her lowering.

And unlike a child’s lowering, a woman’s own is Almost Permanent about 99% Percent Permanent for I have seen members of the 1% who are Truly Honoured and not as lowered as the general 99%!

I will be happy to hear your views and ask questions on them for your other representatives could not answer when they were examined.

Is this your knowledge of the evolutionary theory?

I have a couple of questions I wish to ask from your knowledge above, so may I proceed?

Do you mean “Verifiable” and "Unfalsifiable evidence?

There are Absolute Scientific Certainties Proving Someone Who we call God!

But, let’s not deviate from the issue at hand

[quote=“Grinseed, post:109, topic:1743”]I will not subscribe to suppostions involving sentient alien lifeforms introducing life to this planet until their existence can be substantiated
[/quote]
Let’s not deviate from the issue.

I’m a patient person and I like to be very Thorough, so I am okay with A,B, C’s of your proposed evolution theory which I believe you presented up there and I have some questions on that A, B, C.

So with your kind permission, may I ask those questions?

My problem with reading is that the bloody papers and books never answer the questions I ask and are not able to do so.

And the person who wrote it is not in front of me at the relevant time to answer my questions.

So, I prefer human teachers, they are capable of answering any question I may put forth to them.

:grin: In The True and Real world, you are either on the left of an issue or on the right of it or in the middle that is, you join and mix both left and right issues or you do not commit yourself to any side (in exercise of your rights).

Therefore, when you hear words like “It just doesnt support the idea.”, that is a complete proof of commitment to One Side of an issue which is Complete Proof of being Against the Opposing Side of the Issue.

“You are either inside a House or Outside”

And that’s what makes you statement “Double Opposing Speak or Double Speak for Short”

In Law we say “Aprobating and Reprobating” at the same time, in one breath.

Plus why did omit this: I freely admit that your god may have created all the mechanisms of the evolutionary process, but that again is merely a claim.

Could it be because you have admitted our whole case?

For it is Settled Natural Law, “HE Who Owns the Land Must Always own the Trees on the Land”

[quote=“Grinseed, post:109, topic:1743”]I fully understand that religious and spiritual beliefs still serve important human needs even in this sacreligious age of scepticism and it is for this reason I do not subscribe to ad hominem attacks on those holding or expressing their religious beliefs or ideas, but as this is a debate forum and GodisReal has freely entered and expressed his ideas, I felt obliged to challenge him on them. I have not suddenly or unreasonably attacked him
[/quote]
No, you have not unreasonably acted I am also challenging your challenge.

And save for excessive talk and a little unimportant issues, I agree with him and I stand with him the way you said it up there that is rational explanation of the creation of mankind, which you did not challenge but you rather challenged the “Packaging” called the. Bible and the “Delivery man”, known, suspected or unknown!

There you are! See the One Side that I spoke about earlier that you must be on if you are committed to an issue?

If you disagree that God does not exist, it therefore means that you are on the side that says “God does not exist” as affirmed by your statement “Bear in mind I am an atheist so I dont beleive in gods”

You are one One Side Already and Anti-the Opposing Side

Now you have deviated from the issue at hand as I told your brother David Killens

Like I answered earlier we buy processed foods, snacks, drinks etc and we do not know who cooked it.

So also can we certainly live without knowing the Cook of the Bible, as long as it Sweet and Good and Available!

[quote=“Grinseed, post:109, topic:1743”]I do not share that faith. I am an atheist. I did not change the issue, The claim that a god created life implies the assumption that god exists.
[/quote]
This is Truly a change of Issue and you should have commenced from this issue at the relevant time for proper address, if you care to be addressed on it.

Thanks for the forgiveness, I did not foresee that you would contend evenly and fairly (based on my history here which I am not raising up) it is a result of the fact that most people do not contendly fairly, most especially your kind

So I apologize for being hastily presumptive!

Yippee! :grin:

Egypt, Ethiopia, Athens (from where you get your atheism), Rome etc, have maintained their names as mentioned in the Bible and the same Law of Denial Affects them too.

You have Proven the Truth of the Bible by the Highlighted via Moses Curse in Deuteronomy. “Troubles”, “disperse”!

You have proven The Truth of the Bible when Moses Cursed that Israel’s enemies will over run them anytime they rebelled against God, which they did.

And Moses Cursed that they would have been utterly destroyed if not for Abraham’s Contract Deuteronomy 4:30-31.

Here you Prove again the Truth of the Bible in which it had declared that “Israel will return to their place and shall never be removed”

We are all watching the “shall never be removed” part!

My point was not about justifying the awareness of Israel but about Proving that if the world did not know about Israel, which as you have done for me.

Thus, where the whole world did not know about Israel and the Truths contained in the Bible, MOST CERTAINLY BY 1942-46 AND THEREON, THE WHOLE WORLD, EVEN BLACK AFRICA KNEW ABOUT ISREAL AND THE BIBLE’S PROPHECIES!

I am happy with your admission of the Truth that “No-one has”!

This Is Cheating! What Moses Cursed was eternal and Procedural, which Specifically Commemces from Deuteronomy 27 to the end of chapter 28. Covering Everything which happened to Insreal.

[quote=“Grinseed, post:120, topic:1743”]I
have a lot of trouble following your bewildering explanation as to why the Contents of the Bible are True, simply because they make no sense and I dont recognise the authority of the propositions made.
[/quote]
Remember I told you about your personal powers and ability to do what you desire and you are able to do?

Rebellion and stubbornness is one of those powers, no matter how reasonable an instruction or advice or counsel is!

:joy: Hahah! You Enter my World here and I Authoritatively state that They Are The Very Law of laws, Jurisprudence and Philosophy and read as One.

I am sure you have observed how I put some legal principles down (only a little), I would have said more and I can exclusively answer by Legal Principles Alone but, you and other ordinary men here will call on me to explain those principles.

So I have to explain first, while waiting for someone like you to ask me The Laws backing my Answers.

It is even because I am A Lawyer that is the reason I am a Follower of Christ and a lover of God, for I used the Law to Find The Various Proofs and Evidence of God and Truth.

Which is why I stand here and Everywhere, Representing God as His Personal Lawyer and Challenging Anyone by All Reasonable Doubt, that God Exists and that He is Truly True Indeed and in Fact!

That’s why it’s an ongoing never. But I know you and I and the world is watching the never!

That is the essence of spectators, since we are the first spectators of the “never”

This is no issue.

No, he meant falsifiable. This is one of the kingpins of science, a proposition must be falsifiable. That is how one determines the validity of a proposition.

Grinseed is not my brother, just a fellow atheist forum member.

Please do not apply a christian term on a theist.

Christian Church

a (male) fellow Christian.

This is not a deviation, the thread topic is about a god, and in order to discuss this subject, the bible must be referenced. To challenge the validity does bring into the entire god proposition, but as skeptics, we challenge everything, including a book of stories with a questionable history.

I understand you do not desire for the bible to be examined and challenged in this manner, and would rather see it being accapted as true and inspired or written by your god.

But no matter how uncomfortable this is to you, it will be challenged.

Change of Post and Deviation from Issue, for we are not talking about the earth or about vegetation, flooding and co but about the origin of man/Author of the Bible.

Sweet! You have just Admitted Proof of Prophecy and they Great Weight of the Confirmation of Prophecies can not be waived aside.

It is Good and Solid Proof of Another Greater than man and Beyond the man, Whom we call God.

Which is still Coupled and Supported by Other Extraneous Evidence which you yourself have given Admission to, Therefore, The Weight of The Proof of God has Greatly Increased! :grin:

So we Already have Before Us,Great Evidence in Proof of God, yet we have not Entered into the Inquiiry of the Proof of God

However, I will abide by the same Law I hold over you, the topic is not about the Proof of a God but about the origin of man/author of the Bible!

I will attempt to clarify.

If, for example, the bible predicted a great war will come, that is not even a prophecy because the history of mankind sadly endures constant great wars. Even in today’s world, another great war will eventually come to pass.

You jump on this pronouncement and gleefully proclaim “see, it is a prophecy” (word salad to follow).

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You can’t possibly understand Sheldon; Insight is the driver of faith and wonder a universal constant. The universe is bursting with expanding wave functions that vibrate the meridians of consciousness in the quantum infinite. As human beings we can no longer afford to live in stagnation. The nexus is electrified with four-dimensional superstructures and planet is buzzing with morphogenetic fields. Nothing is impossible. The seeds of complexity can free your mind from bondage. We are the mere travelers of this world. We are the warriers of totality. Life is a vector of cosmic will. And our will is a product of consciousness which consists of electrical impulses of quantum energy and the “Quantum” is a summoning of the spiritual.

How is this not completely obvious?

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Not Enough Capitalization of Words.

This one is my favorite so far. From this “gem” is seems that being skeptical of a claim is proof that it is true! Why with those rules of inference, we could prove anything we want true, on demand at any time. Anything sound suspicious about that?

Well if it sounds suspicious to you, thanks! That means it’s true! Right?

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@Get_off_my_lawn

I think you understand what I’m trying to say…Sheldon’s position that I am arguing from authority or assumption is unfounded. I specified the order of my reasoning. I did not say what I will or believe to be true. I was just rephrasing my position in simpler terms. I said because science is true, and the science resembles the story of the bible verses, the verses are true.

The statement is true because I am making the assumption that anything that is identical in nature to something else can be called the “same thing” and by extension anything which is similar may be the same thing.

But just because a thing lines up with, is similar to, or could be made to seem true, does not mean it is in fact true. According to my thinking, 2 & 3 vary only in their degree of certitude. That’s why I ended with a more definitive clause at the end of the statement. For example, I would image you and the other atheists here will argue that just because a thing lines up with, is similar to, or could be made to seem true, does not mean it is in fact so; In this case that the bible lines up with evolution theory.

Does the bible resemble the structure of evolution history when you look at the verses? I believe they do based on the scientific hypotheses about life’s origin and the bible’s description of life originating from the waters. So if we can conclude the verses I quoted might relate to the historical evolution narrative, then could we say they truly do in fact? Based on what the text says you can’t rule it out finally.

I am making a simpler point that if the book adequately resembles facts about evolution GOD cannot rationally be out of order with evolution (specifically the GOD of the earth and bible). This is the same as saying "if a book says 1x2=2 then that book is in aligment with current mathematics and contains truth. That doesn’t mean the entire book is flawless in all other areas.

here is my scientific evidence that the origin of all life came out of the sea just as the bible describes:

I am not trying to get you to think the bible is legitimate by my reasoning, nor by strictly measurable evidence do I prove my assertion, but by appealing to rationality. There is a low probability the bible would resemble the science describing from whence and by what power all living beings were thrust into the world if it were just a story. That it does show us where is surely true, and you should not reject the possibility that it does because it is specific. There is a level of personal interpretation to this but only in the abstract way that one interprets anything else in life.

Even you think it unlikely because of your view of science and the impossibility of miracles and revelations it is irrational to say it cannot be so.

All things equal, the proposition I am making probably amounts to the reasoning of those who think ancient Egyptians knew about helicopters based on their language which inscribed the following in hieroglyphics:

image

While I may or may not believe these are helicopters, boats, and submarines respectively. I will say it is not irrational to believe so and the evidence is sufficient for anyone who wants to use that as a starting point for a dialog about ancient wisdom. This is much different than seeing fairies or the like because it relates to evidence.

A lie, and an attempt to ignore valid objections to your superstitious wares.

I certainly was, and so was the creation myth in the bible, and since you are peddling that religious tome as a message from an omniscient omnipotent deity, the relevance is manifest.

Try showing some integrity here. It won’t validate your superstitious beliefs, but you might at least earn some respect.

Humans evolved, that’s an objective fact, the bible, like all books, is man made, the evidence you just failed to understand, and tried to dishonestly dismiss, demonstrates that your claims for divine authorship are both unevidenced and risible.

You’d embarrass yourself less if you learned to read, but I’ve emboldened the text from my post that demonstrates you’re either illiterate or a liar.

The use of hyperbole and rhetoric doesn’t strengthen your unevidenced claim, and the only thing “waived aside” was the known logical fallacy you used, that I explained, and you have now ignored. Demonstrating your dishonesty for all to see.

It’s solid proof you’re a liar, and don’t have, nor do you care to learn or understand, the most basic grasp of informal logic. Which paranthetically demonstrates again how dishonest your discourse is. One wonders what you hope to gain by such dishonesty, here of all places?

Liar…scroll up to see the evidence…

You mean by you lying, and dishonestly ignoring the rationale presented, that a message from an omniscient omnipotent deity can’t rationally be expected to contain any errancy, let alone the ubiquitous errancy in the bible and koran.

Quod erat demonstrandum

Try again champ…

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I will say it is irrational to believe so.

And I will say not to cram one’s one worldview into what they see in hieroglyphs. I will say do your research and seek out the truth, not make assumptions to fit the narrative you desire.

Those are the famous

There is no helicopter, there is "“He who protects Egypt and overthrows the foreign countries”.

Humans are pattern recognition beings, we see animals and familiar objects in clouds, we seek out patterns, when they are not there.

edit: Added this:

It is reasonable to say “yes, it does resemble a helicopter”. But going any further is unreasonable and a flight of fancy. To state “it resembles a helicopter, therefore there were helicopters in that era, therefore the bible is true and accurate, therefore god” Is unreasonable.

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