Five (erroneous) opinions common among both atheists and those who say they believe in God or a god

I offer this little list to hopefully provoke some thoughtful discussion…

(1) “Big Bang” cosmology was developed by scientists who didn’t believe in God.

(2) There’s a historical conflict between science and religion.

(3) God is a complex being. (See for example Richard Dawkins’ interview with Piers Morgan).

(4) God’s existence can’t be rigorously demonstrated — there is only the Bible, faith or irrational belief to lead you to say “God exists.”

(5) God is chiefly an explanation of how the world began, not how the world continues to be.

I’m new here but I didn’t see anything too closely related in recent posts so I’m starting a fresh conversation. I hope it’s of a sort that interests some folks here!

Buckle your seat belt. You’re in for a wild ride…

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Hi @TheMetrologist. Welcome to the AR Debate Forum. You’ve included five subjects in one post. That’s like to get very confusing. One subject at a time is much, much easier to construct a conversation on.

That being said…

  1. I don’t care who developed the theory. Instead, I care about its veracity.
  2. Science is a methodology. It conflicts with nothing. There may be, however, conflict between those who trust ideas that have resulted from that methodology and those who use belief to guide themselves.
  3. As someone who identifies as atheist, I can honestly say that I do not believe this.
  4. Care to provide such a demonstration then?
  5. As someone who identifies as atheist, I can honestly say that I do not believe this.
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Hi CyberLN. I think you might be right that there are too many facets to this post. It is a bit of a scattershot to see what folks pick up on.

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I’ll just respond to your comment about the third proposition for starters. Here “God is…” obviously is not a claim about existence, but about the notion of God. A good example of this among atheists is Richard Dawkins who says that his main reason for not believing in God is that a complex being like God, is not going to be explanatory. You can watch the first five minutes of his interview with Piers Morgan if you want to hear what he says.

If only this were the way scientists operated… The term “Big Bang” was coined as a derogatory term for a theory Hoyle thought was nonsense. It seems this rhetoric was largely motivated by prejudice: the astronomer who put forward the theory was a catholic priest. It took a century for the scientific community to finally recognize his achievements.

Prejudice is dangerous for all of us, but especially those of us who make profession to know the truth, scientists, philosophers, etc.

@TheMetrologist Let me ask you one question: What objectively verifiable evidence do you have for the existence of any god, or that one is even possible?

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Then talk to Richard Dawkins. If you re-read my initial response, you’ll see I referred to myself only. Atheists are NOT a many-legged creature with one brain.

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CyberLN. Unfortunately, this doesn’t show that you’ve understood the claim. It makes it difficult to engage :confused:

I’m far from thinking being an atheist means thinking Dawkins thoughts.

I could but it wouldn’t be a one post affair.

Can you demonstrate the existence of instantons assuming I have no knowledge of quantum mechanics?

I thought I was pretty clear. To iterate, I don’t care who came up with a theory, I care about its veracity.
Additionally, you said, “If only this were the way scientists operated…”. That sure sounds like you’re suggesting all scientists do this. I’d like to see data supporting that. If you are, instead, saying it was only Hoyle, then you would be well served to say that instead.

Then why use that as an example?

Perhaps the claim was, instead, not clearly worded.

The claim is that many atheists’ (and theists’) concept of God is of something complex. So usually when an atheist or theist says “I don’t (or do) believe in God”, the concept of god there is of something complex.

The interview shows an atheist and a theist agreeing on this point, so it’s a nice little example.

In a certain sense, this is one of the provocative aspects of the claim for an atheist. In saying “I believe that there doesn’t exist any god,” god is most of the time, generally and confusedly conceived as something complex.

Many? How many?
Usually? How often is that?

Well, my suspicion is that it includes at least you. :slight_smile: So tell me what you mean by “god”

Then use as many posts as needed. I’ll wait…

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I know quite a few people who identify as theist. I agree with them about some things. So what?
You’ve presented an example. Okay. Presenting that example does not necessarily represent anyone other than the person in the example. And yet, you seem to assume I misunderstood your claim.

Good :slight_smile: I guess in a way, that’s already what I’ve started doing.