Ethics…triage…medical decisions…life choices and COVID

It’s been awhile since there’s been debate or discussion surrounding Covid. I read this bioethics article.

In a one sentence summary: exact same patients - sex, age, health, etc but one is vaccinated and one isn’t? Whom do they triage…

There are some equivocation of a terrorist who survives and is brought in with his victims (in essence, the behaviour bringing the person through the doors isn’t a qualifier for medical care) but again, if terrorists were putting the health system beyond its capability and triage was called for the terrorist would be triaged. Daily unnecessary occurrence caused by beliefs.

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Interesting article. I am in the camp of those who want to place the unvaccinated at the end of the line.

They made a conscious decision to run the risks of not getting vaccinated. And now they must face the consequences of that decision. I know I am biased. My wife had cataracts, she was scheduled to have both eyes treated but the procedures were postponed because of Covid. As she waited, her right eye degenerated so much she was blind. Her left was not far behind. Only by sheer luck was there a drop in cases, and she managed to get the procedures done before the end of 2021. And the input from the surgeon was that the cataracts had become so large she was very close to permanent blindness.

Yea, I’m, biased, I’m pissed because I experienced it first-hand how a selfish few have messed up the lives of so many.

From the article Whitefire posted …

“Say there’s 10 per cent of Canadians who are unvaccinated,” said Schuklenk, "and they have no excuses, like a medical exemption. These colleagues have proposed saying, ‘OK, there’s ten per cent of Canadians who are unvaccinated, so we should make ten per cent of COVID beds available to them but no more.’

“I think it’s at least worth thinking about.”

Individuals with other unhealthy habits/ choices that result in costs to society associated with their behavior often pay much higher health insurance premiums in the U.S.

Triaging the willingly unvaccinated may be unethical but a hard hit to the pocketbook as an incentive to get with reality isn’t, IMHO.

Also taxes. Cigarettes are highly taxed. It’s the price I pay or contribute to my extra share of making an unwise choice that as a group places more burden on the health system. As a smoker I also am stripped of certain “rights” (:wink:) ie. smoking in a restaurant or movie theatre. Hell, I can’t smoke on a plane or while grocery shopping.

Be glad I’m not in charge of the medical world. In my world: even hinting that you doubt the germ theory of disease would get you packed back into the ambulance and dropped off at the closest new age crystal healer to get your ass chakra adjusted; free of charge!



stupid 20 characters

I’ve worked in the medical field for over 30 years.

Part of the reason behind the religious exemptions has to do with the ministers, priests, ect. feeding into the hysteria.

Another part of the problem is that some vaccines (like the Moderna vaccine) were developed from tissue from electively aborted pregnancies.

If someone honestly believes that abortion is murder and infanticide, then I understand their discomfort (which isn’t the same thing as agreeing with them).

As for me, I have Asperger’s . . . and Hans Asperger was a Nazi doctor who experimented on disabled children, and also sent hundreds of “defectives” to their deaths at a euthanasia facility.

It bothers me (especially given my Jewish heritage) on a deep level that some of my care may have come from research done by this Nazi while committing crimes against humanity.


I think that’s inhumane. Yes, they were dumb, but they’re already learning their lesson by getting COVID. You do not need to add on and make them suffer more. That is fucking barbaric. You already know how it can possibly end - your wife is a victim. You think that would give you empathy, but no. Apparently not.

His wife is a victim of an overloaded medical system because of dumb un-empathetic selfish choices being made by anti-vaxers. Her sight loss and delay for surgery is because those that had a choice to reduce the risk of getting Covid; or having a severe outcome; or spreading it to others have placed HER on the bottom of the list. Her and those that await biopsies for cancer, colonoscopies, surgeries, etc. are being set behind those that view Covid as a cold or a NWO conspiracy or an experiment…AND continue to pass false information to support their view.

HER cataracts and blindness isn’t contagious. SHE didn’t have a choice to have a :syringe: to reduce the risk of blindness. Why should Canadians that have health problems be kept at the end of the medical line in favour of those that court COVID and scream that their “rights” are violated? THEN cry :sob: when they do end up in the hospital??? In the ICU (huge public expense)??? Learn their lesson the hard way??? Fuck ‘em. Tough shit. They can pray :pray:, take their herbal, woo-woo crystal, untested meds at home until they get a phone call that a bed is available.

Empathy btw doesn’t mean feeling sorry for fools or “helping” them after their stupid willful choices.


Then just create hospitals just for the idiots - but it is NOT legal or ethical to deny someone medical service.

So it wasn’t legal or ethical for David’s wife to be denied cataract surgery?

Just build more. Just staff them. For fuck’s sake. Excuse me while I go shit out some money :yen:.

We have COVID supports for businesses that are affected by COVID restrictions. We have COVID supports for those that get sick and can’t work. We have free medical care for those that get it. All tax public monies. AND there is yelling that we pay too much tax.

Great :+1:… once again your juvenile pov has little to do with the real world in which we live.


The idiots can build and fund their own since they are so independent. Nothing illegal about setting up a private their own money medical care centres.

Even if the money resources were available you forget the “human resources”. Geez, I’ve always hated the politically correct term for “personnel”, but I digress. Medical staff is in short supply to begin with and it’s a very small minority of such staff that agree with the unvaccinated. Medical workers are at risk every time they help a covid patient. The PPE available to most workers isn’t 100% effective and they have to remain completely focused and vigilant. It’s mostly paper gowns, face sheilds/googles, gloves, and mask. Even with just that try doing your everyday activities wearing that stuff and see how fast it wears you down. It’s hot and cumbersome. You can’t scratch a nose or rub an eye, or take a sip of water, or even see properly when things fog up or you need to adjust your glasses. Health care workers are quitting in droves and who can blame them? Empathy isn’t bottomless even for the kindest, most caring people. Remaining understanding for people who could have prevented ending up in the hospital as you’re overworked and stressed to the breaking point is a lot to ask of humans.

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A agree to put the willingly non vaccinated in the end of the line.
The statistical plea for that treatment and the people who pay for healthcare are in favour.
Many people who got themselves vaccinated did that very often not just for themselves but for the well-being of everyone.
Getting no vaccination because of great for the vaccination itself is dismissing the risk that people that got themselves vaccinated took, some of them in spite of fear, fear mostly induced by lots of conspiracies originated from anti vaxers…

I have a lot of empathy for just about everyone. But it varies on the situation. And in this example, a small minority are having a huge negative impact on a lot of people. In another thread I stated “only mothers, dogs, and quality underwear give unconditional support”.

Empathy is not unconditional, I feel a heck of lot of more pain for an innocent suffering than for an idiot who willingly and knowingly harm others.

My position is one that the idiots still need and will get medical attention. But the triage priority is relative to the cost they inflict on others because of their stupidity and arrogance.

Have you ever watched a karma video and smiled, giggled, or even chuckled when some idiot gets their comeuppance? Because if you did even the slightest, then you are just like me in the empathy department, you just are unwilling to look in the mirror.


Here’s an irony.

The perpetrators of false COVID info can be traced back to 12 (called the Dis-information Dozen).

Holy fuck! The non-sheeple (goats??? Lol :laughing: for the ex-Christians) who apparently think for themselves AND do their research are following a group smaller and tighter than the mainstream media owners.

Jesus fuckin’Christ….

No. Never. :smiling_imp:

Oops :speak_no_evil: here I go getting sidetracked

“karma” isn’t a real thing. Things either happen or they don’t happen.

You are evading the question. I am sure everyone understands what a “karma video” is.

No, that’s just what my brain focused on.

And I generally do not find them funny. Also, there’s a difference between having a ball come back at you and dying from a disease caused by a virus. Huge difference.