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41

I share your reserve about history Cranky.

My deaf dad, unable to volunteer for WW1, stayed home and collected the entire edition of a weekly magazine called The Illustrated News of the War. Five years later,he ended up with a full set 15(?) volumes, leather bound. I grew up reading these. I still have an obsession about WW1 and the reason is that what I had read was journalistic propaganda full of bullshit that left me with a completely skewed understanding of the war as I later found out reading later ‘warts and all’ histories and even some of these were inaccurate. History is written by the victors and hack writers chasing a buck.

I approach my history reading with precaution. Barbara Tuchman is my choice as a superior historian. She applies a very strict discipline in her writings, avoiding any ‘purple’ phrasings, never assuming any player’s motives or thoughts, quoting only from letters or recordings and avoiding personal judgements. Her account of the month of August 1914 is a superb history.
V, G. Childe a fellow Australian and atheist academic attained the title “the proletariat historian” during his career in Britain because he reinterpreted ancient history from the viewpoint of the common people who created the tools, weapons, bridges, ships and castles, all the anonymous blacksmiths, miners, boatbuilders, metal workers etc instead of the kings and politicians whose aspirations for war and glory depended on the expertise of their nameless subjects.

The IT revolution has aided in the identification of lost structures with drones satellites, thermal scans etc. revealing the site of ancient lost castles and entire walled cities just hidden below ground level that may provide more examples of past technologies that reveal more about the intelligence and creativity of homo sapiens than the debris of battlegrounds.

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42

I was an air force brat, and our family was stationed in France from 1960 to 1964. One of my pastimes was listening to the radio, including Radio Luxembourg, a pioneer in advancing rock music to all.

I also listened to Radio Free America, and Radio Moscow. Obviously on the opposite sides of the spectrum from each other. But that eleven year old kid quickly learned that Radio Free America was sheer propaganda, all good US news, and all bad news from Russia. And of course, radio Moscow told a story of a good Russia, and a bad USA.

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I want to die in bed, smothered by the heavy large print volume I was reading but too feeble to hold above my head.

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44

My area of interest in wars has been the Holocaust. in which I have been interested since 1963.

The first book I read was ‘The Scouge Of The Swastica’ by Lord Russell of Liverpool. A thick tome, light on reason and heavy on hysteria.

In recent years, I’ve also read a few books by Jewish authors***Their bias is much less obvious, but it’s there.

Have also watched many hours of videos in the form of survivor’s testimony, put out by Vad Yashem.

While at university, my favourite historian was Marina Warner. Last few years it’s been A N Wilson. His ‘The Victorians’ is excellent . I think he may have bitten off a bit too much in attemptinga Biography of Paul Of Tarsus… I’m still wading through it after several years. I really need to start again. These days I find it hard to summon the interest.

IMO there is no such thing as an objective historian; it’s a matter of degree. This becomes painfully clear in the area of religious history.In the last three years it’s been in the history of the early religion which came to be called ‘christianity’ after over 300 years. (via Ehrman and Carrier especially)

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.Hitler’s Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust is a 1996 book by American writer Daniel Goldhagen, in which he argues that the vast majority of ordinary Germans were “willing executioners” in the Holocaust because of a unique and virulent “eliminationist antisemitism” in German political culture which had developed in the preceding centuries. Goldhagen argues that eliminationist antisemitism was the cornerstone of German national identity, was unique to Germany, and because of it ordinary German conscripts killed Jews willingly. Goldhagen asserts that this mentality grew out of medieval attitudes rooted in religion and was later secularized.

Hitler and the Holocaust

(Modern Library Chronicles #8)

by

Robert S. Wistrich

3.76 · Rating details · 219 ratings · 22 reviews

Hitler and the Holocaust is the product of a lifetime’s work by one of the world’s foremost authorities on the history of anti-Semitism and modern Jewry. Robert S. Wistrich examines Europe’s long history of violence against its Jewish populations, looks at the forces that shaped Hitler’s belief in a “satanic Jewish power” that must be eradicated, and discusses the process …more

The Brigade: An Epic Story of Vengeance, Salvation & World War II

by

Howard Blum (Goodreads Author)

4.21 · Rating details · 661 ratings · 79 reviews

An epic true story of three men & one woman who set out to fight a war & in the process help to create a nation.
11/1944. The European war is drawing to a close when the British government agrees to send a brigade of 5000 Jewish volunteers from Palestine to Europe to fight the German army. Among these soldiers are Israel Carmi, a veteran of the Haganah underground, one who …more

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45

… and Meth … the Germans were pretty hopped up on the stuff. Shitler was a major addict too.

https://www.livescience.com/amp/65788-world-war-ii-nazis-methamphetamines.html

46

Very interesting Boomer47, I shall have to read this stuff.

Just two days ago I finished reading the autobiography of General Heinz Guderian, a man who witnessed the inner workings of the German leadership before and during WW2. Almost all books on such matters are almost from a third party perspective, from researchers. But Guderian was at ground zero, and his perspective (although I can never believe it was impartial or guilt-free) was a first-person account.

What is done is done, but I look back and question whether I should have read that book at this time. I learned a lot, but at cost to my temporary happiness.

47

Amphetamines were issued to German troops and were freely available in Germany without prescription. Great chunks off the population were off their faces at any given time…

I think Hitler was addicted certainly in the last year or less of the war. Goring was addicted to morphine when he surendered to the Americans.

A commom side effect of being addicted to speed?–paranoia

Hitler’s Drugged Soldiers

By Andreas Ulrich

Source: Spiegel Online
Date: 06 May 2005

The Nazis preached abstinence in the name of promoting national health. But when it came to fighting their Blitzkrieg, they had no qualms about pumping their soldiers full of drugs and alcohol. Speed was the drug of choice, but many others became addicted to morphine and alcohol.

In a letter dated November 9, 1939, to his “dear parents and siblings” back home in Cologne, a young soldier stationed in occupied Poland wrote: “It’s tough out here, and I hope you’ll understand if I’m only able to write to you once every two to four days soon. Today I’m writing you mainly to ask for some Pervitin …; Love, Hein.”

Pervitin, a stimulant commonly known as speed today, was the German army’s-the Wehrmacht–wonder drug"

48

WTF !!!
forgiving is not a sign of moral, sometimes it ruins people life by letting others taking them for granted and just be quite.

personally, I don’t believe in forgiving when you cant do it.

49

I believe in forgiving whenever I possibly can. This is not a moral position, but a pragmatic one. Forgiving others who have caused one pain is psychologically healthy.

Sadly, I have never been able to fully forgive my father(who is dead) or my ex wife, who I have not seen for 29 years. I would prefer to let go of the anger and hurt. I truly hope I can do that before I die.

50

I agree, but sometimes it is far from easy, and I would say it is always very counter intuitive.

51

I have to force myself to do that. It takes a lot of time and effort, but I understand that in the long run, it is healthier for me.

Anger is the easiest emotion to access, we can get there in an instant.

52

It is literally how our brains are wired. The emotional response (especially that one!) is always much faster than the rational thinking brain. Back when we needed fight or flight, there simply was not enough time to think things through.

More harmful then helpful most of the time in today’s world though.

53

Counter intuitive?Perhaps . Always? Both claims are unfounded generalisations and I cannot support them.

However, speaking only for myself . Counter intuitive, yes. Easy? No. In fact so hard for met hat I have been unable to forgive the two people who caused me the most emotional pain.

54

one of the psychiatrist that I always read for him said, sometimes it will be very hard to forgive someone that cause you a lot of pain or abuse you, he also have said that we are humans and we cant forgive all the time if we suffer a lot . he offers to let go by staying away from these people and kick them out of our lifes and move on to meet better humans. when we realize that its not our fault but its their fault because they are not good enough people it will be easier. just move on and learn from last mistakes and don’t let the new people in future treat you in the same way.
so, my psychiatrist conclusion, forgiving is not healthy if it will cause you more pain but letting go of that people will heal you for sure

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55

in my case I don’t mind dying without forgiving who hurt me a lot.
I don’t owe anyone anything since they didn’t think twice before hurting or abusing me.

I prefer not to meet them in my life again.

56

That is what I basically do. I put it behind me, and eventually that person fades from my memory. The more I do that, the easier it is to let go and forget. Like all things, the more often you do something, the easier it is to do it.

And that part is very interesting. I am an avid sim racer, I engage in many online races against other people. There are the inevitable bad crashes, where you believe the other driver wronged you because of stupidity or malice. And when I began sim racing, when that happened I would rage and be angry for many hours. And if I encountered that same person in another race, I would rage at them again. Eventually I came to the conclusion I was not accomplishing anything but fueling hate and making a bad name for myself in the community. It took a long time, but over a few years I trained myself to keep my mouth shut, and later on to try to let go. I have now reached the state I want to be in.

For example, I was in a big race, streamed to hundreds of viewers. One driver nailed me going into a corner, and for the next few seconds I saw red. But I focused on getting back on track, and within a half lap, I had forgotten who had done me harm, and 100% of my focus was where I wanted it to be, on the race.

It is a big world out there, and and for me it is easy to find new friends, new hobbies, new distractions, and new interests.

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57

I once read that being able to forgive one’s parent’s is a sign of maturity. Dad died in 2006, mum died last year. Seems a bit pointless holding on to old hurts and resentments.

Pretty sure the De La Salle Brothers who beat crap out of me for seven years are all dead.So too the cunt who sexually molested me when I was 8. I hope he died slowly in great agony.

I guess the only person I’ve been unable to let go is my ex wife. I suspect I need to stop trying to forgive and dismiss her from my awareness.

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58

…hahahahaha …only a parent would come up with this beauty!!!

Cranks - I don’t think you had kids, or did you? I’ve found that being a parent showed me how selfish and irresponsible my parents were MAKING it crystal clear that choices are involved in how adults deal with the world around them and those that are vulnerable or under their care. My parents made horrible choices, so in retrospect, I don’t like them (one is dead and one is on her way out). This isn’t relating to religious choice, just day-to-day living and interactions.

Now, I understand it was a different “time” and all that, but regardless of the accepted social norms - they put themselves and their needs first above all. Just their preference.

I don’t forgive. I accept.
So my parents were shitty in almost all areas …OK. Fine. Now as an adult, big deal. I don’t “owe” them fuck all. They controlled a portion of my life growing up. HOWEVER how much mental energy or thoughts or actions I “give” them as an adult is my choice. I choose not to. Sorry, mom & dad and extended shitty relatives (I understand all your sob stories) - fuck off, eh?
You gave me my “sob story” and guess what??? Ohhhhh :open_mouth: I’m a person making positive choices and (get this) demonstrating love.

For myself, it’s about not giving someone that purposely hurt you (control abuse) another day of “control”, especially mentally.

BTW: my mom is a good grandma :older_woman:t2: and my boys know her on a different level and have different experiences of her. Makes me happy that they have a good relationship with her.

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59

When I think of my parents, sure they made mistakes. They all do. But I remember all the wonderful and positive things they did, and try to forget and not mull over any perceived mistakes and resentments I carry. They tried, in their own way to do the right thing.

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60

Not convinced being a parent or not is entirely relevant–and no we had no kids through choice. I didn’t marry until I was 321.Took all that time to find a woman who really didn’t want kids. Real reason; I thought I might be the same kind of father as my father.

Not my idea. Came from a psychologist. I agree in that I agree that forgiveness is psychologically healthy. Didn’t say I’m very good at it because I’m not. I hold grudges.

As a child I feared my father. As a teen and adult I came to hate him and thought he was a cunt. When he was 70 and I was 41 he was diagnosed with PTSD from WW2. That made him a cunt with PTSD.

Those viscerally negative feelings were because my father was an emotionally abusive bully. Would probably have done less harm if he had beaten us.

Once , in his later years, I confronted him with his abusive treatment of his family. He simply denied it.Never happened. He didn’t remember the behaviour which deeply scarred every member of his family. He’s dead now. Seems a bit pointless holding onto resentments. I’ve managed to let go to a point.

My mother has her own issues.Mum and dad shared an inability to accept personal responsbility for anything ‘untoward’ with any of their children. Mum was the most self centered person I’ve ever knowm apart from myself

.One way mum avoided personal resposibility was by convincing herself that each of her four children have brain damage. (we don’t) She’s also dead now,so I’m doing my best to let go go.

I’ve been divorced for 28 years. Over the years I’ve forgiven my ex wife for leaving me. I wasn’t much of a husband and she wasn’t much of a wife. Realistically, pretty sure we’re each happier without the other. However, I have not been able to forgive the betrayal of trust in the way she left. Perhaps a personal flaw;a betrayal of trust is a biggie for me. I’ve only ever given friends one bit of of that cherry “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice,shame on me”

The exceptions have been two other women I loved deeply. I still love one of them to bits,and haven’t seen or heard from her for ten years. .

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Came across the notion that forgiveness is emotionally healthy from seeing a clip in which an elderly Holocaust survivor forgave the Nazis, specifically and generally.

Should Holocaust Survivors Forgive the Nazis?

08/05/2017 03:31 pm ET

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MONIKA LASSAUD/GETTY IMAGES

Should Holocaust survivors forgive the Nazis? originally appeared on Quora - the place to gain and share knowledge, empowering people to learn from others and better understand the world.

Answer by Eva Kor, Holocaust survivor and forgiveness advocate, on Quora:

Many of the people who survived the Holocaust have the “victim mentality,” which is to me a poor me mentality with too much focus on what was done to me . They have extreme difficulty in getting rid of that feeling, that I was used as a human guinea pig, or I was used in slave labor, or I was not treated like a human being. It is understandable, of course. I was a good victim for many years. There is a lot of anger that comes with that. The question is, what does the anger do to you? Does it help you? Who are you hurting when you are angry? You are not hurting the perpetrator – you are HELPING the perpetrator by remaining the victim. You are only hurting yourself .

In my experience, anger is a seed for war . Healthy, happy people do not start wars. Some people take out their anger on their children, or on themselves. But if you look at people who forgive, they are at peace with themselves. Therefore, forgiveness is a seed for peace . When I forgave Mengele, and then all the Nazis, and then anyone who had ever hurt me, I felt a tremendous burden lifted from my shoulders. I realized that although I was liberated in 1945, I was not free until I forgave in 1995.

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Not sure where I heard about forgiving one’s parents. Found this after a brief search. Easy to say I guess. Does seem just a bit hippy dippy new age to me…

Why you should Forgive your Parents and How to do It

By Nanice Ellis on Monday May 1st, 2017

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Let Go of Your Unworthiness Wound

On the surface, forgiving your parents (or anyone for that matter) may seem insignificant, but forgiving your mother or father is actually the best thing you can do for the quality of your life. Even low-grade parental blame and resentment perpetuate a cycle of emotional pain and suffering that can negatively affect your adult relationships, finances, and overall wellbeing, ultimately preventing the love, abundance and happiness you desire and deserve.