Kellii
My standard is benefit vs harm.
My vocation is working against the “people of highly questionable character” claiming they represent ze here on earth & exploiting the followers.
I’ll get to apologetics later.
thank you for the compliment.
My priority is connecting with other reforming theists.
I swing by here when our interests overlap & I like to throw the forum the occasional toy I find to play with.
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I’m thoroughly confused, and I’m genuinely interested in your answers. Your standard for opposing a belief is if it’s harmful? Do you believe in demons while opposing the idea of texting demons? The mere belief in demons has caused harm to people. Do you think that belief can be eradicated from christianity? You don’t think instilling a belief in the supernatural in general can be harmful? Is it okay if a belief is beneficial to some but harms others?
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I said I was in a hurry and didn’t have time for apologetics.
Overall, pre Trump and Benedict, I would have replied in a second that religion was a benefit. I still believe that, but my faith in humanity took a serious hit these last 5 years.
Faith is a gift.
Even without the faith, the community bonding and stress on the need to look out for the well being of all is a big plus to religion.
At the moment, we are mostly stuck with angry groups trying to kill each other.
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A problem which may agnostics have. If there is a god, he’s unknowable. We have no idea of any of his/it’s attributes and as far as I know, there’s no way to find out.
That I think YHWH of the Torah is cunt is my problem. That I can’t understand how he could exist is irrelevant. That position is a text book argument from incredulity…
I agree that the human race is divided, but I can’t think of anything more divisive than religion. It’s more a cause, than the hope for a cure.
I don’t see faith as a gift. The human capacity to believe things on faith is nothing short of frightening. If you’re willing to take things on faith then you’re capable of believing anything. It’s why people can believe that they’re getting text from demons.
We do have some common ground. I’m not a Trump fan either.
I’m afraid I am unable to agree.
Religious faith is belief without evidence. IE superstition.
Having religious faith is a like reading/watching Sci fi/fantasy; it requires the suspension of disbelief.
Religious faith declines in affluent societies in which people are capable of critical thought. Of course I accept that many believers do not think rationally in just that one area. With day to day things, they’re fine.
Although I suspect most of the believers we get here are atypical, it’s my observation that most either can not or will not apply critical thinking to their personal superstitions.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha … Faith is complete bullshit., There is no idea on the planet that I can not support with faith. In fact I have faith that you are an atheist. See how that works? That’s my faith and you can not prove me wrong. Welcome little atheist to the community.
Faith is not… nor has it ever been… any sort of gift … or any path to knowing anything about what is real in the world. Faith is the fall back position of theists. When they run out of apologetics, assertions and special appeals, they just give up and say, “You gotta have faith.” Faith gets you noplace in this world.
“Faith” is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
What is even worse is the never ending attempt by theists to equate or conflate “faith” ( the belief in the ineffable) with confidence ( the sun will rise tomorrow). It is dishonest, tiresome and induces apoplectic rage in curmudgeonly old bastards like myself.
Sorry, but faith is an absurdly irrational way to reason. There is literally nothing one cannot believe using the vapidity of faith.
That may be true sometimes, but on the whole the evidence suggest to me that religion is not a force for good. It’s easy to think organised religions are the problem, rather than the base assumption theistic religions make, that we owe our loyalty and worship firstly to an imaginary deity, rather than to each individual we share this planet with.
Were theistic religion true, I still could not adhere to any of them for that reason, and because respect has to be earned. not demanded, even by a deity, perhaps especially by a deity.
At the moment? Secular governments with any sense have been slowly neutering the power of religions, and rightly so.
My position is that anyone can believe whatever they want, but if they want me to adhere to anything they will need to demonstrate that it improves the wellbeing of us all, and isn’t just a bigoted attempt to please that imaginary deity.
If a deity has a problem with anything I do or say, then that deity can let me know personally, or let us all now, but I will never take those instructions from a human intermediary who can’t demonstrate any evidence for their claim.
I have no time for religion sorry, it will always be something i tolerate when it is largely innocuous, and challenge when i think it is harmful, and I am afraid I find the core concept harmful.
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities”
Voltaire
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Personally, I have a level of “confidence” in humanity. There is evidence of our survival through thousands of years despite weather catastrophe, disease, famines - and a social evolution towards more co-operation and compassion. I do not need faith (reliance on unevidenced belief) to form an opinion however we also have lessons of mass atrocities that humanity is more than capable of (usually driven by belief, be it religious or political).
tRump was/is a vivid, recent example of faith in a political, nationalistic ideology spurred by the already accepting “faith” driven. Any fact/evidence contrary to their conspiraturds is readily dismissed.
Community bonding is a human trait. Religion has laid claim, BUT there is nothing it provides except superstitious fear “of the other” to maintain its form of bonding with a touch of sugar-coated love.
The well-being of all by religion??? Nah. Not without strings. Motivated by love-bombing the “other” until the “bait and switch” is complete…then, you’re God’s through guilt and an OCD commitment to “be clean” (spiritually/symbolically), with a moral high ground and righteousness enveloped in false humility and pity for the “unbelievers” (if not an outright hatred and disgust for their lack of belief, morals and decency).
I would argue that religious belief has only created communities held by a pecking order of one-up-oneship. It has, IMO, only pushed the human into the secret closet of its being.
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“Faith” is nothing more than uncritical acceptance of unsupported assertions.
This isn’t a “gift”, it’s a neurological pestilence that’s been a drag anchor on human progress for millennia.
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