Claiming that the existence of love, ideas, faith, creation, and other intangible concepts "prove" God

I see religious people in this forum sometimes use the existence of intangible concepts to prove their God. It’s not a unique case here, as my first debate with my father regarding God went a little bit like this:

Dad: You can see your brain, you can touch it, you can scan it with machines. But can you see ideas in themselves? You can see a man and a woman procreate and care for their child. But can you see love in itself, or can you only see how it’s expressed?

I was young, and it left me speechless. Sometimes, I wish I could go back and answer that question to my father, but we don’t talk much anymore since the day he disowned me. Also, it could be useless as he’s just one of the many people who actually use such reasoning.

So here’s my answer right now for everyone who has the same mindset as my dad.

Intangible concepts like love, energy, or ideas to “prove” God is but a flawed attempt to redefine God using terms for things that already exist. Like saying God is love, or God is energy, or God is existence, or whatever intangible thing that is already defined.

The primary problem with defining God as being synonymous with things that are already proven to exist in reality (such as love, energy, nature, or the universe) is that we already have words for those things and don’t need to use God to describe them. The word God comes with extra baggage because most theists think of God as conscious, smart, and involved in the world, answering prayers and judging people. There is no evidence whatsoever that energy has consciousness or self-awareness. Ideas, faith, love, morality, and other societal constructs are related to the human brain. All of which arise from evolutionary strategies that enhance survival through teamwork, cooperation, and altruism.

But creation and existence are not connected to the brain, you say? But we already have words for them. Creation and existence in itself do not burn, punish, and persecute homosexuals and other “sinful enemies” of a faith. People do that in the name of their fantasy.

God is everything, God is you and me, God is all around us. Tell me, do they all pass judgement to others for not aligning with their agenda, or is it just you?

Ultimately, if the word “God” is used to mean anything to anyone (such as love, energy, or nature), then it essentially carries no meaning and undermines effective communication.

P.S

Interacting with my dad means I have no choice but to interact with my sister too. I hate her.

  • She’s born from my dad’s illicit affair with another woman.
  • My dad favors her more.
  • She was actually born a woman; therefore, she is treated like a real woman. Me, being trans, doesn’t count.
  • She’s super religious.
  • She’s everything I’m not.

It’s much better to state my reason to a wider group of people than to one person.

Actually we have recently constructed first-generation mind-reading systems, rendering ideas and feelings and images one is thinking about, accessible to anyone with the right sensors and software.

For example:

So these abstractions and ineffable things are just another example of things that, once we understand the underlying mechanisms, lose their mystery, shrinking the gaps that gods live in.

wow that’s new, I’ll check it out

Well, with God being the original intangible concept, it seems inevitable.

The existence of love, ideas, faith, creation and other intangible concepts proves the existence of Allah. And Yahweh. And the god of the Sikhs. And Brahma and so on.

This argument fails to prove any particular god as being the one true god because it cannot identify who this god is. It could be Jesus or could be any of the above. The argument simply levels the playing field, making it possible for anyone to claim that their particular god is proven by the existence of these things.

Not much of an argument really.

Walter.

I’ve known for some time that this apologetics is garbage.

As for ideas, an old FB post of mine is relevant …

I think we can safely toss the usual bullshit claims about ideas being “immaterial” into the bin as a result.

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And the Aztec deity if gluttony, if I was to jump ship that’d be my deity of choice. :face_with_raised_eyebrow: :wink:

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I’d rather sink in a ship than be alive swimming in a fantasy