I’ve been debating with a Christian Apologist on another forum who thinks he has all of the answers. But he’s gay. How exactly does that help as a Christian? The church system in most denominations are very homophobic.
From my understanding many xtians are very Anti Gay because of their bible. There were a few “pray the gay away” movements in the early 2000’s and those didn’t do jack shit. There was a guy at my parents Baptist church that was all about gay people burning in hell. If you ask me, he was bit too obsessive about it.
For fucks sake. Why would a gay xtian want to worship a deity that endorses gay hate on its own followers who are of different sexualities?
Gay xtian is the same oxymoron as an xtian woman who advocates for taking away women’s control over their own bodies. These are the republicunt women. Altough I stopped getting surprised by such things, ever since I saw a jew wearing a t-shirt which praises Hitler and his policy for “clean race”.
But I myself have often wondered how can you (I don’t mean you, MrDawn, I mean rhetorically “you” as in “any gay person”) worship a deity that wants you dead for loving another human being?! I’m beginning to think it’s actually the xtian god who the bad guy is and the xtian satan is the good guy. Cuz from what xtians are promoting (mostly with movies), their satan allows and endorses gay sex in the so called hell.
And considering their god thinks knowledge is the enemy, what else is a normal person with brains supposed to think?
Well, I am sorry to have to tell you this, but you, presumably a normal person with brains, are not supposed to think. Did you not get the memo concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? You just need to read your Bible and ask Graud to help you rid your infected mind of the unholy rationality which has obviously taken root…
For many theists, indoctrination, peer pressure, and spending a life growing up in a religious environment makes them theists. For any gay people, they realize what their true self is. Yes, this can be a conflict, and yes, it can have a negative impact on gay theists.
It can be a horrible internal conflict for theist gays, they can suffer from mental anguish, depression, even suicide.
I was once a mod for a Dutch gay cross dresser sim racer. He was a wonderful caring person, and his Twitch channel was a place where many in his community gathered and supported each other. But in some conversations I witnessed terrible conflicts from some gay theists, they experienced mental confusion and anguish because of this conflict.
Can this conflict lead to suicide? IMO definitely yes.
See, there you go thinking… and after I went to the trouble of explaining the pitfalls of such sinful behavior. I am not sure if there is any reasonable expectation of redemption for someone as untethered to the “truth “ as you are. I will not pray for you.
In all fairness, I know many religiturds (friends, family, and otherwise) who are remarkably smart. I even know a few who are incredibly intelligent, while also being incredibly ignorant. Sure, there are those of religious persuasion who are certainly lacking in higher thinking skills, no doubt. Bottom line, though, religious belief is not an indication of an individual’s intelligence level. In most cases (as with mine, for instance), a person is basically indoctrinated/“programmed” from birth up through teen years and beyond to believe in and worship some type of god(s). As such, that individual has little to no control over that influence, regardless of how far he/she might advance academically. Just saying…
I stand on the same side of the argument as Tin Man.
I know more theists than atheists in my personal life. They are intelligent, insightful, witty, and knowledgeable.
It is my opinion that they are victims of the most effective con game ever, religion. They do not suffer brain damage, they do not suffer major faults, they just fell victim (mainly upbringing, peer pressure, old habits) to religion.
When you figure it out, please let me know. My wife and I both have been wondering the same thing about her little brother. He and his partner have been together almost fifteen years, yet he still holds onto his Christian beliefs. Moreover, he is incredibly intelligent (Medical PhD, college professor), and my wife has many times discussed the bible with him in an attempt to “open his eyes” to the nonsense within it. To say the matter is puzzling would be an understatement.
The Christian holy book is fairly cut and dried on the issue via 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
“9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Homosexual and male? Just leave the religion now, they’ll never accept you.
(And losing the ticket to Paradise would be the least of all concerns with migration to Islam, so don’t even think about that.)
I know a young lesbian couple (A and B). B is trying to transition to male. But there are problems that some might find hard to believe:
Both are super evangelicals. B is an unsafe gun nut, conspiracy spouting, general “MAGA” person.
B’s family lives nearby and he sees them almost every day, but they don’t know about the transitioning. B has not told them about this part of his life. So when B’s family is around, we have to refer to B by their old name (feminine). The couple recently got married but since family was at the wedding…they did everything with B’s old identity (for lack of a better word). Somehow gay is OK; but trans is a bridge too far? I can’t explain it.
Bonus tangent story about B. He didn’t think covid was real, until someone very close to him suffered a slow, horrible, terrifying death from it. After that they started taking precautions seriously; and now can’t seem to remember having spread those conspiracy theories…
In all of my 38 years I’ve never met a single one religiturd to be smart or intelligent. If anything, there are many who think they’re “scientists”, but they acknowledge only their god’s “science”, not the actual science.
Well it seems to me that intelligence and awareness are not necessarily concurrent.
I too know some intelligent, well educated, pleasant individuals who openly embrace religious batshittery. Some from indoctrination, some from dealing with addiction, trauma, death, severe illness, and the list goes on.
I even know a very few people who display awareness and some critical thinking, except when it comes to religion.
Why this one thing? Is it as @Bluedoc posited recently, is the fear of admitting you don’t know worse than believing in a horrible example as is the Christian mess of a God?
Is indoctrination a more powerful influence than is commonly recognized?
Is fear a more influential factor, as exemplified in the saying “ there are no atheists in the foxhole? (Although a good friend, atheist, survived Vietnam partially by exiting a “foxhole” occupied by two proselytizing Christians just before a mortar round sent them to their “maker”)
I do not subscribe to the “mental illness” explanation for belief…or brain damage, etc.
I occasionally use the expression “they’re mental”, but it is not meant to indicate a mental illness. That is not to say that there are not people with mental illnesses that are believers,
but I have not seen evidence that it is a reliable causality, even if correlation occurs frequently.
It is too easy to write it off this way. By doing so, it is dismissive and ignores the possibility of changes in beliefs. I don’t agree with the idea that we choose what we believe, in the vast majority of cases. There are a few individuals who will admit to believing for reasons of “emotional comfort”, etc., but a person’s beliefs can sometimes change if they are alerted to the faults in their “epistemology”.
I think it is also divisive and counterproductive to paint people with a firehose…
Ever hear of Francis Collins? Gregor Mendel? Louis Pasteur? Max Planck? Werner Heisenberg? Robert Millikan? John Hall Gladstone? Lord Kelvin?
The list goes on and on.
That YOU have never met a person who is both intelligent and religious certainty does not preclude their existence.
Intimating that because YOU haven’t met a person who is both intelligent and religious means they do not exist seems to me to either border on or exist in the land of egotism.
One of my uncles (my Mom’s oldest brother) was a Methodist preacher. And one of the smartest men I ever knew. (And I’ve known many smart folks over the years.) My next door neighbor and his wife are VERY religious and deeply involved in one of the larger local churches. They are roughly ten years older than me and my wife. She is a court reported/legal clerk who often has to travel to take depositions from witnesses. He is self-employed as a cabinet maker/craftsman, and has also done a considerable amount of building contract work. The man is HIGHLY SKILLED, and has probably forgotten more about woodworking and house building than I will ever know. He has taught me many craftsman tips that have helped me improve my own craft skills. These folks aren’t stupid, I can assure you. They are simply “victims” of religious indoctrination.
I’ll buy the conclusions of this meta analysis on the subject:
“Three possible interpretations were discussed. First, intelligent people are less likely to conform and, thus, are more likely to resist religious dogma. Second, intelligent people tend to adopt an analytic (as opposed to intuitive) thinking style, which has been shown to undermine religious beliefs. Third, several functions of religiosity, including compensatory control, self-regulation, self-enhancement, and secure attachment, are also conferred by intelligence. Intelligent people may therefore have less need for religious beliefs and practices.”