Atheist majority?

Debate Room
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I actually worked with someone who believes atheists are in the majority in the United states. She however could not resolve the fact that Trump ran on the religious card, and ‘won’. Also every major political candidate seems to need to at least nod to religion, usually Christian. I have not heard of any political candidate claim to be atheist.

I looked for some numbers. The perception of atheists seems to be improving somewhat based on polls, but still seems to be a liability.

Are there actually more atheists than is believed? Atheists are sometimes are clustered together with ’ Unaffiliated’, and is a shrinking category worldwide, but increasing in USA and France. Worldwide, Islam seems to be growing. I find that very alarming, as it seems the most dangerous, and unopen to information as far as religion goes.

How can atheism be ‘consolidated’ and clarified? and be promoted?

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Why on earth would I want it to promote it? I don’t give two shits if someone believes in god(s). “It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
What I DO promote is a separation between religion and government. I support the people in their struggle to shuffle it off.

Consolidated? It is a single response to a single assertion.

Clarified? Seems pretty clear to me…a theist says there’s gods, I say I don’t believe them.

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No credible stats I have seen places atheists out of single-digit percentages in the US.

The largest self-reported “religious” group in American for a little while now has been the “Nones”, or religiously unaffiliated. This INCLUDES atheists, and so people sometimes conflate it with atheism.

As an atheist, I’m “religiously unaffiliated” for obvious reasons.

But there are also people who believe in the core tenets of Christianity but avoid organized observance. These have varying levels of personal piety, ranging from little to no observance, all the way up to daily prayer and Bible study and perhaps even having services for the (extended?) family in their home, led by the family patriarch. I suppose that all the major religions have people who don’t affiliate with an official congregation yet at least nominally embrace all the dogma except the parts that disparage non-affiliation.

There are those who identify as “spiritual but not religious” in some broader, less-defined sense. They may practice things other than a popular religion, like spiritualism or the Kabala or New-Age types of ideation.

None of this changes that those who are definitionally true Atheists, are a small minority, especially in the US where a third of the populace are evangelicals.

I’m sure we break into double digits in some Western countries, but things are obscured there for different reasons. One is that cultural Christianity is a bigger thing in countries that, for example, once had or perhaps nominally still have a state religion. For example, where the state church is or in cultural memory was the Lutheran Church you might identify as Lutheran in a survey because after all you live in a Lutheran country; you may pay a tax to the church unless you specifically opt out, and probably have a lot of Lutheran influence in your thought habits – even while not personally believing in any God, much less the Christian one, or being in any way observant.

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“In 2023, approximately 72.5% of Americans identified as religious, with 27.5% being religiously unaffiliated.”

CITATION

Religiosity is in decline, see the link, but no atheists are not in the majority. NB Important to note here that religiously unaffiliated need not mean atheistic, for a variety of reasons. In many parts of the US it also might be expedient to keep your atheism to yourself, certainly if you wanted to run for any sort of public office, for example. So the figures are a “best guess” if you like.

I am not sure what the OP means by “clarify” atheism, it is the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities", and that seems pretty clear and concise to me. Nor do I see the need to promote it, as much as the need personally I have to challenge any pernicious beliefs religions try to peddle, including the core idea that we should owe more loyalty to a deity imagined to exist, than to other human beings who exist and can be harmed as an objective fact.

In a word humanism, I find this a more moral worldview, as its primary
priority is how we treat each other, over all other considerations, though this is not of course atheism, but nor are they mutually exclusive.

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Well religion seems to do both. Religious organizations are not taxed in the USA, but it still is effectively business. So, I guess your good with them running a business and not paying taxes for doing business?

It does break your leg for having access to more funds to promote religion. something you disagree with.

Isn’t this webpage a promotion of atheism? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am surprised about any response “why would I want to promote atheism?” Its already being done on this board.

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Well religions and believing in gods are not the same, so that’s something of a false equivalence.

Nothing Cyber said suggested that, it seems a bit of a stretch tbh.

Again you’re misrepresenting what was said, as Cyber’s comment was about belief in a deity, and not how religions behave.

It’s a place for like minded people to discuss their lack of belief, and of course to debate topics with both atheists and theists.

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I am also disappointed with the inclusion of atheists with religiously unaffiliated, because that can include religious folks, but ones that don’t attend a particular church or religion.

Hum, you see no need to promote atheism? Isn’t your participation on this board a promotion of atheism? If you see no need to promote, well, in a sense you need not participate here or elsewhere on any topic related to atheism.

I really, really appreciate the works and ideas of Sam Harris, he makes a lot of excellent points. I know he does not speak for all atheists, but there are common themes he addresses as relating to atheism. He does try to ‘clarify’ atheism. Especially on morality, which is probably the last stand for the religious mind, as many believe one cannot have ethical standards, or ‘morality’ without god, religion, or related things. He believes one can, and probably should have morality that is not religiously based. At the very least be able suggest an alternative.

I bought a copy of his book on ‘free will’ and I will probably read it again. Its related to ‘morality’ as most people think everything one does is a choice independent of causal events which came before. I think I will forever question the idea of ‘free will’ or ‘free agency’.
Lack of free will, does not relieve anyone from certain obligations, however, I am sure.

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I am sure Cyber can speak for Cyber. How are you to know that I am misunderstanding or distorting anything? are you distorting anything? I suppose only Cyber can express

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I am not sure how your disappointment at this demographic’s composition is relevant?

Not really, people are free to come here or not, participation is not mandatory. If I am guilty of promoting anything, it is critical and rational thinking, or at least trying to do so, anyway.

That’s your opinion, it is not mine, and I don’t agree. You are also in no position to tell others whether their participation is necessary here.

Atheism is the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, my morality no more needs belief in a deity, than it needs belief in mermaids.

They are demonstrably wrong, there is extensive and longstanding research that demonstrates atheists are at least as moral as theists when measured by the same metric.

Do they, when did you poll “most people”? Could you link that research for us please?

It depends how you are defining free will, but we perceive that we have some autonomy of choice, if we did not then morality of any kind would be rather pointless.

You are correct, but you only quoted part of her assertions, and then misrepresented it as about how religions behave, when it was a comment on theistic belief.

I can read, and the answer is my response?

I don’t believe so, but please quote anything you think I have written that is a distortion, and I will give it due diligence.

Then you suppose incorrectly.

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You seem to conflate religion with god beliefs. That’s a mistake.

No, it is not. This corner of AR is a debate forum.

Where in my post did I say that?

Of course she can. And Sheldon can comment as he sees fit, as can anyone as long as they adhere to forum guidelines.

Folks do so by reading words.

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You seem to conflate religion with god beliefs. That’s a mistake

I don’t understand. I also thought atheism means one disagrees with religion, and god belief.

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…only express their ideas…

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I have no idea what that means, or how it is relevant to anything in my post?

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Believing in a deity, is not the same as an organised religion. What’s not to understand? My mother believes in a version of the Christian deity, but she is in no way culpable for how organised religions conduct themselves.

I have quoted verbatim, the dictionary definition of atheism, in both my previous posts, so how you arrive at this conclusion is baffling?

Atheism
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Note that it makes no claims at all, and so none about deities or religions.

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Where in that link, does it demonstrate that most people think what you claimed?

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I included a link about how many people believe in ‘free will’, or not. The webpage includes the concept of Compatibilism. I had never heard that term before. I don’t know if free will and determinism are compatible. Doesn’t seem like it.

What is strange is the idea of ‘choice’ as necessity for ‘morality’. Maybe there are degrees to both. One can only make a choice from ones past experience, so are choices really ‘free’? If one is human, one will make a different choice than what a cat might make to a particular stimulus or event. Are cats moral for having made a ‘choice’?

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In this survey, one of the questions regarded their position on free will. The results were as follows; compatibilism 59.1%; libertarianism 13.7%; no free will 12.2%; other 14.9%.

72.8% endorse two clear forms of free will. only 12.2% do not endorse free will. 14.9% is ‘other’ whatever that is…

In the rare discussion on the topic, most have expressed the idea of ‘free will’.

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You are incorrect. Go look up antitheism.

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Atheism is the position that there are no gods. That position is a claim.

Organized, or disorganized religion is still religion. Most of the time it does center around belief in a god, gods, spirits, souls etc… If it involves a belief in a god or gods…its religion. It doesn’t matter to me if its organized or disorganized, or unaffiliated or whatever.

Religion without a deity is probably more accurately a philosophy. Buddhism comes to mind, although I believe there is theistic buddhism. Jainism comes close, as there is no belief in a god or gods as a creator(s). They do believe in rebirth, and the soul, also in captive and liberated souls.