please look carefully who are doing the wrong , where they orient you
Of course atheists are racist. That’s like asking if Atheists are human. As human beings what we can do is notice when we are being racist and try to admit it to ourselves.
RACISM IS A TAUGHT BEHAVIOR: I disagree. Racism can be a taught behavior but it can just as clearly be a bunch of other stuff as well. The one thing that comes to mind is fear of the unknown.
Imagine being a person who grew up in white America and suddenly you move to the Countryside in Korea or China. First, culture shock sets in. There is about a six month period of transition and at the end of this period you actually accept the foreign culture or become a bigot. (Okay, false dichotomy.) Still, I have seen it over and over again. People either resist the new culture and hate it or learn to adapt.
When I go online and see complaints by foreign English Teachers who have had a hard time in Asian countries, I can see that about eighty to ninety percent of their complaints are cultural. Especially true 20 years ago.
Even when things look the same, they are different. You are standing in a supermarket looking at something on a shelf and people walk in front of you, even bumping into the basket you are carrying without even noticing what you are doing. “How rude, they don’t even say excuse me.” You are following behind a family with a shopping cart and they just stop in the middle of the isle for no fucking reason at all to have a conversation. “Excuse me! I’m shopping here, How about moving on,” Are you being an ass or are they. How hard is it to mutter, “Damn Korean’s” under your breath, instead of taking the time to understand what in the hell is going on and what the social norms are?
It’s much easier to point a finger than to change one’s self. So… I submit that a fear of the unknown, an unwillingness to change, and having the attitude that your way is right even when immersed in another culture are also all at the roots of prejudice.
Prejudice occurs when we do not take the time to understand the actions of others. A cop in America once ticketed a Scandinavian woman for abandoning her baby in a stroller outside of a small market. When she went to court, the judge listened to her. This was a common practice is Sweden. The judge dismissed the ticket and told the lady that it was not common practice in America. “Please don’t do it again.” Very appropriate. By the way, It is common here in Korea. The shopping isles are more narrow than in the USA and there is no room for a baby tram. Babies in strollers are frequently left outside and the parents keep their eye on them.
3 Likes
hahahaha. When I lived in Calgary and bought a house in the “immigrant” area, my co-workers all looked at me like I was nuts 
(I wasn’t - doubled my $$$ in a year) BUT grocery shopping there was a “culture shock”!
I know exactly what you are describing and “why” … hehehe 
(psst I don’t shop Costco)
Cosco has come to Asia. You wanna see a real clusterfuck~
Can you even imagine a crowded Asian department store?
True story… During my first year in Korea I found myself in one of these supermarkets during a holiday sale. I was literally shoulder to shoulder with the swarm. I wanted to move towards one of the isles for something and there was a group of women just standing in front of me talking.
Rather than just barreling threw the center of them, I touched the nearest on the arm and was about to say “excuse me” when she jumped away, pulled her arm away, and shot me a look like I had just raped her.
I said, “excuse me” anyway and went on my way. I assumed she had some sort of problem. However; later the same thing happened at my school. I had struck up a conversation with some teachers. Apparently as we said goodbye, I touched one of them on the shoulder to get their attention and excuse myself. Later one of the Korean teachers came into my office and asked me, “What does it mean when you touch someone on the shoulder like this?” LOL. (I’m a pervert!!! A damn American Pervert.)
Korea is a low contact culture between the sexes and a high contact culture between the same sex. Even today, 20 years later, boyfriends and girlfriends do not show affection in public. Hand holding, kissing, or other displays of affection are minimal and generally only displayed by the younger generation. I had violated a social taboo. The filthy American was touching women. How disgusting.
On the other hand. My vice principal really liked me. He would grab my hand and walk down the street holding it when we went to lunch. Lucky for me, I had been to Italy prior to my Korean visit and this behavior was not a total shocker. I had seen it before.
So many things can be misinterpreted. The easiest thing in the world to do is to point a finger. The hardest thing in the world to do is to look at our selves.
1 Like
Love your story!!! YES baabbbbeeeeee…
I learnt the above is culturally acceptable. 
. I miss my “shopping” days.
Interesting. Nature nurture dichotomy.
It’s been argued that Humans have an innate attraction to the divine. I think there may be some truth in this because some form of religious beliefs seem to have always existed in human society globally .Before there was any contact between groups , long before towns and cities.
However, I think it’s fair to say belief in a corrupt organised religion is acquired. Usually absorbed uncritically ,before the age of seven.
I’ve always found it interesting that historically, successful religions tend to support the status quo.
They virtually always seek and find power, wealth and social control. It occurs to me that organised religion perhaps becomes a means to an end with little or no 'spiritual ’ content. Certainly for some imo.
YES! I think it’s as simple and as complex as that.
I’ve certainly seen a lot of it In Australia. It’s been said that Aussies always have some group top hate.
When I was a gossoon just starting school we hated the protestants. The head a nun actually told us we really should not throw rocks at the protestant children. It wasn’t their fault that they and their parents were going to hell"
Next group were English migrants (pommies) who came here in the 1950’s for 10 pounds. We had a desperate labour shortage.
Two groups next; Greek and Italian migrants
In the 80’s it was asians, especially Vietnamese refugees.
Today Australians hate Mulsims. This hatred is systemic. The depth of this hatred is demonstrated by our shameful bipartisan policy against refugees.
My mother migrated from Canada to marry my dad. Life was emotionally very hard for her for many years. So I have some insight into the migrant experience.*** I cannot imagine how crushingly difficult the things refugees need to deal with
***as indeed Cog probably has. I noticed the same kind of behaviour from Chinese people in Singapore when I lived there.
I had a western friend who got tired of being bumped into on the street as he walked. He was a big guy and would walk to his job at a school every morning. One morning he just decided to put his head down and walk forward no matter what. He flattened a couple of people to hear him tell the story. It gave him great pleasure.
In the Cosco, where I do my monthly shopping. When the family of Koreans stop in front of me, I stand by my cart and wait patiently. Sometimes they notice me and act all surprised that another human being is in the store with them and doubly surprised that, that person would be right behind them. They politely move their cart from the center of the isle to let me pass and slight bows are exchanged. Other times they just ignore me and I wait until they are on their way again. It’s hard for me to do the Korean thing and just push through the center of them as if they are not there. I still find that rude; however, if I see the smallest of openings, it is not beyond me.
It’s so easy for a foreigner, Westerner, to take this sort of behavior personally. “What! Can’t they see me! I’m right here.” No, They don’t see you. They really don’t. You are not a part of their world. It is polite in Korea not to notice other people. The place is crowded. You can not go about smiling or acknowledging every person you run into, You would never get anything done.
1 Like
This was my way - then a smile 
. And a nod and a “I was just trying to squeeze through here…”
YES … I didn’t have anyone to show me or tell me this.
I’d go and get my “shock” …I had moved from downtown Calgary on 17 Ave and was “use” to tourists and preppies and business people and princesses… anyway…
I thought 
“OK, for some reason this behaviour is “normal”
- why???” Then I thought. Hey! Most are from very populous countries. What if I lived in a crowded place for a long time…hmmm, it made sense, so I adapted”.
Now of course, some weren’t. Some were born right here in Canada. Some are just rude. I didn’t take any of it personally …in fact I rather enjoyed it when I took my best friend with me the first time 
1 Like
I’ve heard New York can be a bit like this, though I have never been there. I was raised in California. Many of my good friends have come from New York. I appreciate their ability to be direct.
The difference between New York and California was pointed demonstrated by the way people were robbed on the streets. In New York, someone shoves a gun in your ribs and says, “Give me your wallet.” but in California, they have to get to know you first.
Sadly this is also the case for Cape Town a beautiful city that is plagued with high crime rate in fact Cape Town has a higher murder rate than Johannesburg .This makes Cape Town the most dangerous city in South Africa .
I work with people from South Africa. In fact there are many here in Korea. They are very happy to be in this country. Do you know, you can leave your wallet sitting on a table in a restaurant and no one will bother it. You can leave a cell phone in a taxi and the driver will return it to you. Markets have products on display outside the front doors, fruits, soaps, and household items that no one steals. When a mother goes into a small store, she can leave her baby in the stroller outside the store and no one is going to run away with it. Korea has its problems, but theft is not one of the big ones. Yea, it does happen and more so in the tourist areas, so you do have to be careful as a traveler (Travelers are always targets for thieves.) The social stigma of being labeled a thief in this country is terrible. If you get arrested, everyone in your social group knows it. Everyone in your home town knows it. Everyone in your graduating class knows it. And, everyone in your family knows it. It is quite embarrassing. It also takes some getting used to.
When I lived in a smaller town, I would go to school on Monday morning and everyone at the school would know where I was and what I was doing over the weekend. It does not happen as much in the larger cities but it is quite intrusive in smaller cities. When Koreans know you, there are no personal boundaries. Friends become “older or younger brother” My friends mother is referred to as “our mother.”
When I went on a recent job interview, I met my new boss’s mother. She was delighted that I called her “Mother.” (Is that why I got the job?) Well… actually I got it over a Skype interview and then was invited to meet the family. New Job starts on the first if all goes well.
3 Likes
Fascinating stuff, thanks.
Is Korean tonal, like say Chinese or Thai, or not, like Japanese?
Because I was processing Vietnamese refugees at the time and worked with a couple of Vietnamese, I tried to learn Vietnamese. Pickle me grandmother! Written Vietnamese is simple enough*** ,and I picked up the system of honorifics well enough. As for speaking Vietnamese, not so much. ----Think I mentioned I can’t hold a tune. That also means I have problems with a tonal language. Eg; The word ‘ma’ can have six ,meanings in Vietnamese, from ‘mother’ to ‘ghost’. My attempts at Vietnamese sentences had my Vietnamese co workers roaring with laughter.
***Roman text and only French accents.
Wow .Sadly in South Africa that is only dream .Crime rate in South Africa is so high that you need to be cautious all the the time you can get mugged easy in a large shopping mall .Here is the crime stats of South Africa robberies has increased .
https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/421424/south-africa-crime-stats-2020-everything-you-need-to-know/
Sometimes I hear stories where thieves pretend to be pastors or preachers they will preach for you and want to you pray and the moment you close your eyes your wallet is stealthy stolen . To make things worse I just found an a article that states South Africa’s military is out of money .
https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/452760/south-africas-army-is-out-of-money-heres-how-bad-things-are
Yeah. I understand that’s a cultural norm in Korea and Japan. Also in the PRC , I saw it with a wallet full of money. Of course they shoot thieves in the PRC. But that’s not the reason for the exceptional honesty.
Korea, Japan and China are all shame based societies, not guilt based, like ours. Being arrested for anything brings shame to the entire family and possible ostracism to the miscreant.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
In cultural anthropology, a shame culture, also called honour-shame culture or shame society, is the concept that, in a given society, the primary device for gaining control over children and maintaining social order is the inculcation of shame and the complementary threat of ostracism. A shame society is contrasted with a guilt society in which control is maintained by creating and continually reinforcing the feeling of guilt (and the expectation of punishment now or in the hereafter) for certain condemned behaviors.
Like a lamb to the slaughter, here is my opinion. Yes, I get it, atheism has as much to say about racism as hydroponics does about blue elastic pants. It would seem that Jane Goodall witnessed racism in her study of primates in their quest to pass on their genes (not that they were conscious of the why of what they were doing). I personally hate racism, though I am no more free of it than I am of the desire to procreate.
Atheists you mean, atheism is solely the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, and therefore has nothing to say on anything else, and isn’t a claim at all, just disbelief in one single claim.
Racism is something of a misnomer anyway, as all humans are one race or species. Bigotry or prejudice is probably a remnant of the instinctive fears that were defensive mechanism for small hunter gatherer groups, where being weary of those who looked or sounded different might have made the difference between life and death…
Such prejudices are asinine in post industrialised societies where we can travel to any part of the world in hours…or a day or so at most…
1 Like
Otzi, the oldest natural mummy of a copper age European man has a f*****g arrow in his back. We’ve been our own worst enemy for a long time, and have plenty of reason to be wary of each other. I think the instinct runs very deep and not likely to go away anytime soon.
2 Likes
Luckily we also evolved a brain that enables us to examine our own instincts and behaviours, and if we choose to, weed out the pernicious ones. We ditched badger baiting dog fighting and even fox hunting using hounds recently. I mean as a society of course, so given enough time we might dump the highly pernicious and idiotic racism into the dustbin of history.
We can’t force people what to think of course, nor would I want it otherwise, but we can educate children to recognise how pointless and egregiously pernicious prejudices like racism are. And of course legislate that no one should be openly discriminated against based on ethnicity or skin colour in the mean time.
I look forward to the day such legislation will be unnecessary. Sadly at 55 I may not live to see that day. One lives in hope though, always…
I dared think things were getting better, we had a black president ffs. Then came the back lash, a president who backed white supremist, and political rallies that look like kkk meetings. I’ve heard more openly racists things being said in the last 4 years than I’d heard in the 20 years before. They were emboldened and came out of the woodwork. A confederate flag (a symbol for white supremist in the U.S.) was carried thru our national capitol building during the riot. I can only take comfort in the fact that they’re going to eventually lose. It’s inevitable. Those who want a “pure” white race can retreat to remote compounds and inbreed themselves out of existence.
3 Likes