Atheism and Racism

Thank fucking Cog wasn’t in here - we’d never get this mess cleaned :broom: :soap: up …

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@David_Killens

…they don’t make atheists like they used to either.

We asked 1000 random people a series of random questions.

Our survey showed they all gave random responses…

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Sorry…I’m blaming tin.

You sound familiar, have I encountered you before?

Cog! Oh Cog… where are you???

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MandyKidwellAtheist

A totally inane question, demonstrative of the fact that you haven’t a clue what atheism is. Can you explain how you are calling yourself “Atheist” when you do not know the meaning of the word?

There is no “In Atheism.” There is nothing to be “in.” Are you trying to ask if atheists can be prejudice? Certainly. They are human just like everyone else. That says absolutely nothing about Atheism.

There is no “Atheism” to be 100% free of anything.

Prejudice is not embedded in religion. Some religious people are prejudice. The issue with the Abrahamic religions is not “Racial Prejudice” but “Religious Prejudice.” (Note - Abrahamic and not All religions.)

This is due to the fact that the abrahamic faiths are “In-group” or “Out-group” religions. (You are either one of us and saved or not one of us and damned.) Each religion, each church, and even the people in the pews have this mentality. “No true Christian would ever believe that, do this, act this why or that way.” The Abrahamic faiths are HIGHLY JUDGMENTAL. The Jews have a special covenant with god as they are God’s chosen people. The Christians are saved by grace, accepting Christ into their life, being reborn, Islam is the last word of God. It is a return to the truth from whence the Christians strayed. It is the true word and on the last days the Christians and Jews will be given a chance to accept Allah or burn in hell. Can we do the Mormons? JW? Quakers? Hittites?
Mennonites? Oh oh oh… I forgot the Catholics. The Pope is God’s representative on earth. (Along with that Mormon guy and the Seventh Day Adventists who also have prophets of God on earth,) Religious prejudice is inherent to the system.

One of the most amazing things the Christian faith did is "REMOVE RELIGION FROM TRIBAL BOUNDARIES.’ Prior to the Christian faith, religion was very tribal. You can see this in the Greek and Roman City States. Romulus was the God of Rome. Athena the God of Athens. The Christians, for the first time in history, broke down this barrier. Anyone who joined the sect, became a brother of the lord. A member of the group. The religion became the reference group and not the city.

Given the plethora of early Christian faiths, the Christian sects probably would have failed in the same way the Greek and Roman Gods failed. Unfortunately, Roam had to go and Adopt Christianity (It’s version) as the official religion. At that point, not only were all the pagan faiths eliminated by the sword but so were any Christian faiths that did not agree with the official Roman faith. Religious prejudice has always been a part of the Abrahamic faiths regardless of their name.

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@MandyKidwell

Hi Mandy, welcome to AR

You seem to be asking are some atheist racist?

Well of course. Some of us are also total arseholes. Overall, the folks here are salt of the earth types. But, we all have the usual human frailties.

Once again, for the the third time within a week:

An atheist is a person who does not believe in gods, period. There is
no ‘within atheism’

Atheism is NOT A religion, belief system, philosophical position, a political ideology or a club.

Atheism does not start wars nor vilify or hate others because they are different. If an atheist hates others or commits gross acts,such have nothing to do with atheism.

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@Cognostic

About damn time you got here! Oh, and there better not be a mess to clean up in the bathroom. :angry: :face_vomiting:

Tin-ManAtheist

Looking confused, monkey cheeks glowing red, throat clearing sounds… “There was a bathroom? Did it have real toilet paper? Um, just for your information, those brown streaks in the lawn by the fish pond with the banana peels floating in it are not mine. Is that why you are making this inquiry? I think I saw White down that way.”

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Awwwww shiiiit… :man_facepalming:

EVERYBODY! Check your shoes before putting them on! And for god’s sake, look before you sit!!!

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Hello Mandy. Welcome to the forums.

I don’t think racism and atheism are mutually exclusive. The atheists of the Chinese Communist Party are very racist in their treatment of the Uighurs, for example. That said, I believe that many religions incite and amplify racism, so to that extent at least atheists may be a little bit ahead.

As to whether racism is innate or taught, perhaps we should look at the history of our species. Throughout history, it was wise to fear people who looked different. More often than not, the arrival of a different ethnic group in your territory was likely to signal invasion, violence and disease, rather than invitations to trade and cultural exchange. So fear of different others may be part of our genetic heritage. So perhaps in some people racism is an inherent trait that has to be unlearned, rather than a bad habit that is taught.

Either way, I think that shrill accusations of racism and the strident demands of the cancel culture are likely to entrench racism rather than cure it. Humor is a far more potent weapon against racism than statue-smashing. Look at the Klu Klux Klan scenes in “Oh Brother Where Art Thou” and “Django Unchained”.

I’d have to disagree with you there, Cognostic.

The whole “Chosen People” nonsense is pure racism. The Curse of Ham is a source of racism.

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True enough, but imo believers did not invent racism, which is just another word for xenophobia.

Imo, fear and distrust of those outside the group might have evolutionary value .

At the time of the alleged Exodus, the chosen people were an illiterate bunch of nomadic, bronze age goat herders. An outsider was the same thing as an enemy,and could be killed with impunity. Imo, that attitude could have been the a cause of the development of powerful laws of hospitality, which protected strangers.

The Abrahamic faiths seem to me to be the most dogmatic, closed minded and hateful of all large world religions. They exploit the natural fears and hatreds of their flocks as means to an end.The ends are power and control.

In my opinion, a religion actually built on love and compassion would have no need to manipulate its followers with guilt and fear.

@boomer47

That is true. Most all human behavior/attitudes have both a genetic and environmental component. A part of the evolutionary process.

Well…not sure about that though…most of the main tenets of religions, especially abrahamic religions, who all claim faith based in love, are actually based around fear response.

I can not argue that the curse of Ham has not been used throughout history to support prejudice.

I am more in line with the following:
" The story’s original purpose may have been to justify the subjection of the Canaanite people to the Israelites,[3] but in later centuries, the narrative was interpreted by some Christians, Muslims and Jews as an explanation for black skin, as well as a justification for slavery.[4] Nevertheless, most Christians, Muslims and Jews now disagree with such interpretations, because in the biblical text, Ham himself is not cursed, and race or skin color is never mentioned.[5]

Thus “embedded” seems a bit on the strong side. People use the religion for whatever purpose they find convenient. KKK, Aryan nation - use religion. It does not mean the racial prejudice is embedded in the faith. On the other hand - most certainly the prejudice between sects and faiths IS. A black man can be a jew or a christian or a muslim. A person can not be a Jew and a Muslim at the same time.

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The “curse of Ham” was simply explained by man as to what the scriptures meant - now it’s explained as something different.

Yup.

The enslaved Africans in the antebellum US were called ’ the children of Ham’. That belief was used to justify slavery. Problem is, Ham’s colour is not mentioned in the bible.

The Wiki article below is interesting. The second article is from a christian perspective.
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The curse of Ham (actually placed upon Ham’s son Canaan) occurs in the Book of Genesis, imposed by the patriarch Noah. It occurs in the context of Noah’s drunkenness and is provoked by a shameful act perpetrated by Noah’s son Ham, who “saw the nakedness of his father”.[1] The exact nature of Ham’s transgression and the reason Noah cursed Canaan when Ham had sinned have been debated for over 2,000 years.[2]

The story’s original purpose may have been to justify the subjection of the Canaanite people to the Israelites,[3] but in later centuries, the narrative was interpreted by some Christians, Muslims and Jews as an explanation for black skin, as well as a justification for slavery.[4] Nevertheless, most Christians, Muslims and Jews now disagree with such interpretations, because in the biblical text, Ham himself is not cursed, and race or skin color is never mentioned.[5]

For the majority of its history the Latter Day Saint movement used the curse of Ham to prevent the ordination of black men to its priesthood.[6][7]

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Ham: Son of Noah

Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham (Cham), and Japheth, but it is Ham and his lineage that settled Africa and various parts of Arabia. Although that is the case, there is lots of evidence that Ham was not the only black son, but may have had black skin in common with Shem. According to scripture, the brothers were born when Noah was 500 years old.

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Hey…don’t knock Thor.

If I have a speech impediment, can I knock ON the thor?

Just to let everyone know … the ironically (in this thread anyway) named Ken Ham peddles the “Hamitic races” garbage at his “Creation Museum”. I recall PZ Myers was particularly scathing about this when he gatecrashed the creotard funny farm in question.

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would it be assosiated with your previous beleifs? would you mind to select the true way(devoid of previous beleifs) when you confronted with the situation.(I might misunderstandable because of my english level sorry if I write in wrong letters)