Atheism and Abortion

“Met your ilk before.”

Who so you are psychic now? You can divine the totality of my character via a message board?

And you wonder why I call you delusional lol .

[quote=“Sheldon, post:79, topic:172”]


I think I may have been approaching the issue from the wrong angle.

In previous posts I have asserted that all life has value, not simply our egoist individuality. Hence I think it may be argued that a human fetus is alive from the time it begins dividing cells. IF all life has value, then the fetus has value from that time, in itself.

However, as far as I can tell,the claim that all life has [innate] value is a moral evaluation. That means that I do not agree with abortion in principle, be because it destroys life. BUT, I do not have the right to impose my moral values on others. Probably because I ascribe a greater value to a fully formed human life than to any other form of life. This is an arbitrary position, which I think should always be left open.

I will resist the claims of for example, the pro life brigade attempting to impose their values on others. Because, as far as I can tell, those values are based on nothing more than personal superstition.

Won’t even try to argue the theological points . I don’t believe in god(s). Consequently, I consider theology , biblical hermeneutics, and exigesis forms of sophistry which may be dismissed out of hand

So, that leaves me with personal values I cannot prove. As a skeptic, I accept that I am am obliged to always question. Most strongly held beliefs more than anything else. Having few is any certitudes apart from death can be very wearing.


Dude, to quote someone, highlight the portion of the persons text, from there post…a ghosted quote button will appear at the beggining of the quote…click on that quote button, and it will be transferred to your open text window in a back-lit box. Just a heads up.

I am talking about evolutionary survival. You asked for validation for abortion. IMHO our species inherent need for survival, is validation for abortion.

IMO it does not apply to the fetus. It only applies to the woman. The individual that can act on her survival…as until that fetus can survive on its own, it is not a life.

No problem, if you took the time to write it, I’ll take the time to read it.

“I do not accept your “limit” of the definition.”

Why? What does addressing what a duck does in nature have to with the debate on abortion? , What we find in nature does not tell us what we should or should not do as a society. The limitation i proposed is to keep the debate as close to on topic as possible. I do not want to asked if a skin cell is considered a life is all, the question offers nothing to the discussion and only serves to distract from the point.

'The seven characteristics of life include:"

An unborn human child meets all of those characteristics. So maybe I am missing your point here. I will wait for clarification.

" I accept that a human “life” as “potential”"

Potential for what? Is life conveyed like baptism as the child passes through the birth canal?

“A morning after pill is not the same as a late term abortion.”

Never said it was.

"Until the baby is outside the womb, the child developing has no “human rights”. "

Not true, if I kick a pregnant woman in the stomach and cause a miscarriage, within the eyes of the law i have killed her child, so obviously the child had human rights before birth. I violated the child’s right to life.

Now I only raise that point in response to yours, but i do not want to discuss legality because, again, that does not tell us what is right or wrong, true or false.

“the woman’s life has the seven characteristics. She has thoughts and emotions, the ability to reproduce and has agency. I will err on her side when supporting “life”.”

So does the child…so now what?

Pope Alpha (I call him that because he exhibits the traits of a Pope from circa 1,000 AD) reminds me strongly of a previous poster who also had anger issues and was so intent on posting that many typos appeared.

Reread my post to you again. I answered in full and clarified… to be fair I read a few sentences of your quick response to me and it is obvious you didn’t read my responses thoroughly.

And you remind me of all the pseudo-intellectual hacks who masquerade as honest participants, until you get exposed for providing nothing more than talking points you have heard from twitter.

Then rage, rage, rage.

Just answer the question and stop deflecting with your childish responses, it is very simple.

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I did read your post carefully, and even offered the olive-branch that i may be missing your point. And asked for clarification.

You back up your baseless accusations first, you know every post that you do not provide proof only goes to show that I am right lol. You came in missing the point completely, and instead of admitting it, you keep making a fool of yourself.

Then state your case: Should women have bodily autonomy or not?

Simple question that you have attempted to ignore and deflect every time asked. so…

Should women have bodily autonomy or not?

Heck yea.

My wife has a PhD in abnormal psych and two Masters in associated psych disciplines. If I decided to bring her in to read some of your posts, she could, within five minutes generate a detailed and very accurate map of your psychological traits, and possibly family history.

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You know my price. I want you to admit that you made baseless accusations, based off your own delusional interpretation, and that instead of admitting it like an adult, you acted like a child and threw a tantrum.

Says the person who boldly exhibits anger management issues.

“You can divine the totality of my character via a message board?”

"Heck yea.

My wife has a PhD in abnormal psych and two Masters in associated psych disciplines."

That is your wife, not you. And if you wife honestly believes that then she should get her money back lol. I wonder how many doctors treat their patients via message boards lol.

“Says the person who boldly exhibits anger management issues.”

Give one example

Price on your opinion? I think not.

Try answering the question. Here it is again…

Should women have bodily autonomy or not?


Sorry mate, argument from authority fallacy.

Pretty grandiose claim, which makes some unfounded assumptions…EG that the model your wife uses is universally accepted. Pretty sure there is no such animal.

Generally speaking, an ethical psychologist will not attempt a diagnosis without actually meeting the person. I very much doubt that your wife would entertain the proposition you outlined.

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You request honest debate, yet your rebuttal to david is dripping ad hominem. IMO, If you feel he has disengaged from the conversation, I suggest you tell him, or not respond. Just a heads up…I am thinking you don’t want to come across like a dick. JMHO.

I only respond in kind, if you make false accusations and fail to provide any evidence when asked, then why should i continue to argue with respect? If I twisted your words and accused you of authoritarianism, would you not ask for proof, if I only doubled down on my accusation, would you be ok with that?