After allot of worrying and deep thoughts I have finally come to the conclusion regarding the existence of gods… WHO CARES! Seriously, even if we except the usual arguments for the existence of God it still would not prove which God or gods happen to exist. For all we know God could be some inconceivable Lovecraftian abomination who is at best indifferent to our existence if not downright hostile. Who says we are not created by a kid for a science project who afterwards forgot about our existence.
But lets accept that the Christian God exists. So which Christians are right because there are Tens of thousands of different sects who are often hostile to each other. Even then why must we even worship such a being. If you read the old testament you will come to the conclusion that this thing is clearly a genocidal maniac who killed more people than in Hitler’s wildest dreams. Unless, of course you do some serious mental gymnastics.
Now some Christians may counter “But what about Jesus” Well, whose to say Jesus was not send specifically to give us false hope before this chaos god throws us into hell anyway because it just feels like it? Maybe it intends we waste our one life worshiping this deity and then torture us eternally for the fun of it? What if God created all the religions just for us to reject them as a test of rationality? Hey maybe only Atheists go to heaven.
Anyway I reject hard atheism because I think its possible that a higher Intelligence exist in some form or another. So all I say is stop worrying about the afterlife. Enjoy life now because either God does not exist, does not care or is clearly evil.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate to support this?
It never crossed my mind to worry about it, so I agree.
Its not exactly evidence but the universe is a big place. I think the ods of us being the only intelligent species is slim.
How does the size of the universe imply the existence of a “higher intelligence”? Also if we assume for the sake of argument that a higher intelligence exists (higher than humans?) how does that negate atheism in any form?
1 If there are allot of space for live emerging the ods that there has evolved life that are more inteligent than humans increases significantly. I think the idea of entirely dismissing the possibility of superior intelligence is rather foolish.
A possible higher intelligence does not necessarily equal god, it does not even come close to fulfilling generally accepted definitions for the word “god.” You can believe in the possibility of a “higher intelligence in some form or another” and still title your self an atheist.
Also for clarification, define “hard atheist.”
I agree in part, I too think it would be foolish to deny the possibility of “more inteligent (sic) than humans” out there somewhere, at some point. The known universe is incredibly vast, and there maybe a whole lot more “unknown” universe.
However, we are now just talking about advanced intelligent life, somewhere, at some time. This is no longer a conversation about “god.” Or atheism. Unless you are trying to say this intelligent life played some sort of major role in creating life/humans right here on planet earth.
This instead is a conversation about “intelligent life elsewhere” which in my mind, is also a rather foolish conversation. May be fun to talk about, but has zero actual implication/consequence on anyone’s life here on this planet. At about the same bearing as arguing if a rainbow farting unicorn god exists or not.
Still happy to discuss this topic, pointing out the enormous contradictory flaws of just about any god or “intelligent life somewhere” conversations remains a fun exercise to me. If anything as insight to why people think the way they do.
Well that’s just a repetition of your earlier claim, with a different wording. It still doesn’t explain how the size of the universe implies the existence of a “higher intelligence”. Firstly what do you mean by higher intelligence? I already qualified in my earlier post in brackets, does this just mean life more intelligent than humans? Bear in mind most of the claims we see here for a higher intelligence are precursors to arguments for a deity, or an intelligent creator of the universe.
Superior to what? Who has dismissed it? You haven’t offered an accurate definition of what you mean by higher intelligence, or any objective evidence why you believe it exists. Or explained how the size of the universe implies the existence of this “higher intelligence”?
Yeah I’ve always thought so, but I have no evidence to support that opinion. As far as I’m aware, it’s possible, with a probability of 1. That does not mean they necessarily DO exist.
However, that has nothing to do with the existence of any god(s). Believers ascribe unsupported qualities to their gods. There is no reason to think a god would be either benign or intelligent.
Nor may we assume that other sentient species would be benign or share our values.(thought processes, morality) People assume more advance beings will be like say they Vulcans. For all I know they might be like the Cardassians The Borg. I’m in no hurry to meet them.
Not entirely convinced your claim of not caring is a rational conclusion rather than a feeling or bravura. So what? Just an observation.
An atheist is simply a person who does not believe in god(s) (Belief)
An agnostic is a person who does not know. (knowledge) He/she may be agnostic about God or anything else. EG I’m also agnostic about extraterrestial aliens and who will win the US elections.
I do not believe and make no claim to know. That makes me an agnostic atheist.
OF COURSE I think about god, as I suspect do many other people here. My thought is “What if I’m wrong?”. I may be. I do not have evidence which allows certitude. An absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. In that context, absence is suggested, but not established.
Addendum: Throughout discussions, I have so far insisted on a mantra: “God cannot be argued into or out of existence”. I require empirical evidence to believe in any god and am unable to accept anything less. Same goes for proving the non existence of god(s), although I have no idea how that would work. Since I make no claims, that is not my problem. The basic reality as I see it is that all claims about god(s) have so far been unfalsifiable.
I do not worry about the existence of any god, as I see no valid reason to believe any exist and yet I still accept the argument for argument’s sake, I might be wrong.
What worries me more than all the supposed torments of hell, are the strident, arrogant, close minded people who believe wholeheartedly their supernatural gods exist and incessantly try to impose the beliefs, dogma, rules, laws, and restrictions of those gods on others through the processes of politics and law, denying true religious, political, intellectual and social freedoms of others.
That’s why apatheism doesn’t work for me. As the sign at the entry to the AR forum says, “We give a shit.”
The question isn’t whether there’s a “higher intelligence”, but whether such an intelligence is supernatural. The religious argue that their god or gods are somehow outside of nature without ever addressing the how and why of such a concept.
And there are the claims that god is invisible, intangible, omnipresent. Something that’s you can’t see or touch and is everywhere is functionally identical with something that is nowhere and doesn’t exist.
I also like to compare the Christian god with Superman. Superman started out with basic superhuman powers, such as jumping over buildings and lifting heavy things. Then he acquired invulnerability, superspeed, x-ray eyes, etc. This power bloat destroyed the drama because nothing could touch him. So they had to invent kryptonite. Similarly, Jehovah went from a powerful tribal warrior god to the ultimate omnipotent boring superhero, so they had to invent Jesus, who could be tortured and killed, to bring a little drama into the fable. Spoiler: Jesus comes back to life on the last page of the comic book.
I care about all this bullshit to the extent that it causes harm in the real world.
It does not change my life in any way if an afterlife exists or not. No afterlife equals no worries of any kind. No pain no nothing. The end of what ever makes me up as a person.
If there’s an afterlife great too as I’ll find something to do for all those years. But considering time did not even exist before the Big Bang, nothing else could probably exist either.
So there’s little to no chance an afterlife actually exists.
But either way changes my life in no way.
We have all heard of tribes that lived on without any contact from the modern world. Some people from the modern world have ventured into theirs.
I am wondering if anyone here has any knowledge on that topic. Did they think they were the only ones that existed? Did they think that others beyond them existed and if so why? When they made contact with modern man did they think of them as a higher intelligent people or as gods or just equals? Were gods even a part of their thinking and what was it based on?
I see this as being relevant in understanding humans, the thought process, and the topic at hand.