All religion is evil

Debate Room
42

No… you are obviously wrong. Atheists “Don’t believe in Gods.” That does not mean they do not believe in Chinese medicine, Chakras, Pyramid Power, Crystal Magic, UFOs, Earth’s mystical power spots, that OBEs and NDEs are demonstrations of a Spirit life, reincarnation, etc…etc…etc…

How long did you say you were an angry atheist? Dude, you got a chip on your shoulder that needs a reality check.

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And your reasons do not comport with reality. Welcome to skeptical rationalism. It’s great that you think you are an atheist but when you say stupid shit you are going to get called on it. You are, after all, doing the exact same thing the Christians / Theists do. (Spouting nonsense with no justification for doing so.)

Last time I looked, “Evil” was not a thing but rather a value judgment that we use to describe horrific acts for which we really have no good explanation. It’s just a label, not really a thing.

Admittedly, at least in my own opinion, people do some fairly evil shit, whether or not they belong to a religion. I happen to like the quote… Steven Weinberg — ‘With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil (I prefer: do things we call evil); but for good people to do evil (things we call evil) - that takes religion .’

I believe I can justify the above quite easily as long as we accept that religion is not the “ONLY” reason good people do bad things.

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Since I was 10. I decided I didn’t believe in a deity. Are you saying that you don’t think I am an atheist. That I’m a wanna be basically?

Thank you for correcting me.

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I don’t care what you are? You are probably a human being who likes to call yourself an atheist. I challenge you to line up 10 humans, stick an atheist someplace among them and then tell the difference. Atheism is not a thing you become. It is a position on a God claim and nothing more. What you are in angry and spouting nonsense.

Well… looks like there is hope for you on the site. "It’s not meant as a ‘correction.’ We are merely having a discussion and you are saying a whole lot of silly stuff that is not based on facts or evidence. Perhaps you have simply been to one too many Christian bashing sites. (You will get your share of that around here; however, even the most idiotic posts by any Theist is given a reasonable amount of respect and logical discourse prior to people just giving up and flinging poo.) Your case is a perfect example.

Why so thin skinned? At what point did I say, “You are not an atheist.” I am curious about how someone calling themselves an atheist could be so dogmatically irrational for such a long time. (Assuming you have been this way for a long time of course.)

Perhaps there is another way, a more rational way, a way that involves logic and reason, to discuss both religion and atheism? I might be wrong. Religious bashing might be the way to go. Perhaps we need to burn down a few Churches and burn a few Christians to get even for all the atheists they have killed. I will consider those as options as they are in fact possible avenues of action. I see no reason at all to be extreme in this matter. I would rather have a rational discussion than a finger pointing irrational accusation session. Perhaps that’s just me?

Half the people on the site just did a face palm. When it comes to flinging poo… well… let’s just say I am very capable of getting some good shots in. Even so, there is a time and place for everything.

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46

Yup.

So much anger, so little rational thinking expressed.

I admire your patience, although I suspect it might not be seen that way.

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47

I label myself an atheist because I believe I lack belief in a god for good reasons. Some of those reasons are the many inconsistencies in the bible and lack of any evidence.

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I’m unable to accept that god(s) can be argued into or out of existence. Consequently, I demand empirical evidence for any claims made about any gods, for or against… Such evidence is what constitute good reasons for me.

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49

For me, after giving it a thought for many years, my lack of belief is founded on, among other things:

  1. Science. There really aren’t a lot of places for a god to explain the cosmos and the world we live in, and those few places where She could hide gets fewer and smaller as Science progresses. Explaining power, predictive power, repeatability – Science has all that religion does not have, and has long since taken over the lead as The Great Explainer.
  2. Inconsistencies and contradictions. Religious texts and explanations tend to disagree with themselves, and to disagree with known facts about Nature. When Science disagrees with itself, it is being corrected, while religious doctrines and interpretations are not. Religious people tend to downplay and ignore this and try to explain it away.
  3. What is not in religious texts. If religious texts like the Bible or the Koran really were the inerrant words of an all-powerful and all-knowing god, then why is not filled with practical advice on how to lead healthy lives? For example: wash hands before preparing and eating food; basic recipes for making soap; eating undercooked poultry products can make you sick; eating undercooked pork might give you parasites; defecate downstream of your water source; basic facts about the female menstruation cycle and why it is natural; have laws against rape and against keeping slaves (ithere are none, instead, the Bible is filled with ultra-important regulations about the clothes priests must wear, the shape of candle holders, etc); and much more.
  4. The observed state of the world does not agree with the notions of the omnipresent, all-powerful and all-merciful God that christians claim when I see starving children, children being beaten and abused (sexually or otherwise), poverty that is next to impossible to get out of, genocide, unfairness, injustice, etc.

These are but a few of the reasons I don’t believe in any god(s).

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50

Bashing beliefs is very different from bashing all people who hold those beliefs.

I’d have no problem decrying Judaism as an unevidenced superstition, but antisemitism is deeply pernicious, and turns my stomach.

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51

Typing error? You meant antisemitism?

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Yes my apologies, laptop is bust, so posting on my phone. My eyes are not what they were.

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@Cognostic Thank you for understanding and your honesty. Your words have allowed me to sit down and think about things. When I joined here. I will admit that I didn’t have my head on straight and I know you’re not saying this to be mean or malicious. I know you mean to help and sometimes it takes a good kick in the ass to get the blood flowing. I don’t want to sound silly or stupid when expressing my beliefs. If that’s how I sound. Then no one is going to take me seriously and I’m going in the wrong direction with it. Something is really wrong. I want to improve. I want to sound sincere and I need to face my inner issues.

This is what I should have just come out and said before. But yes, this is also why I’m identify has atheist. No evidence and lack of belief.

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54

In here honesty and learning is appreciated and welcome. That is what separates you from too many theists who steadfastly ignore all valid points and refuse to learn.

Personally, I have learned a lot in here, and I know I still have a lot more to learn.

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55

Today’s obvious droplet of obviousness: If you think you have nothing more to learn, you have learned nothing at all.

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56

People will submit all posts here to critical scrutiny, no one thinks less of a poster for being wrong, as we all are capable of error. The only thing that exhausts people’s patience in my experience is closed minded preaching, or a dishonest refusal to acknowledge an error.

My advice is to try and enjoy the forum, there is usually something new to learn here.

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57

We’ve all done it and still can. We also can get emotional and go off on rants. BTW, I wasn’t hinting for you to go anywhere else, so I’m glad you stuck around.

You will have fun and I am looking forward to your area of “expertise” (I assume the anthropology). I refuted all evolution in my head growing up, thanks to “The Creation Book”.

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58

Further. Take care in declaring yourself an expert, at least over a long period.

A broad rule of thumb is that about 70% of what we know will be wrong in about 10 years

When I finished University, I had expert knowledge in perhaps five areas. That was in 1985. Most if not everything I learned is out of date. I kept reading in broad areas of interest. The best I’ve been able to do in the last 20 years or so is to claim being a dilettante. Seems to me that’s almost always a problem for the autodidact.

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You are heads and heals above some who respond to the simple facts contained in my posts. Whether people like it or not I simply call them as I see them. That does not mean I am 100% on target but there is certainly enough there to make one sit down and thing about things. (Sounds like the intelligent thing to do… at least to me.)

LOL - We just had the “No Evidence” debate with 'Fivel" an angry little athist who has been hanging about for around 2 years now and still has not caught on to what Atheism is. (There is lots of evidence for God. Just letting you know.) The problem is that the evidence for god is extremely poor and it does not hold up against any form of critical evaluation. It can’t stand to be investigated. It is in fact, the worst sorts of evidence. And when you put all the bad evidence together, you still only have… a pike of really bad evidence.

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60

Is not! *Stomps feet*

I think you’re being generous here. The typical pieces of “evidence” they have are

  • a book(*) with uncertain authorship, for which the claim is that it is the word of God(**)
  • a subjective feeling that this world they do not understand is too complex to exist only due to natural laws

The first very often boils down to circular reasoning – God was the editor-in-charge for the Bible, therefore the Bible is true. And since the Bible is the true word of God, God clearly exists. Or some variation on this. The second is just a variant of the watchmaker analogy, alternatively argument from ignorance or argument from incredulity. And in the end, most of the “arguments” I have seen from creationists and that I have bothered to dig into end up being one of the above after reducing them to their elemental parts and claims.

(*) or three, depending on your definition; one for each of the largely mutually excluding abrahamic branches
(**) or Allah, or Elohim

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61

…and their “witness” testimonies.

These are for many, the clincher. Trusting their brain :brain: and their brain’s interpretation of; and experience filtered through perceptions (and pre-suppositions).

Can a witness serve as evidence? Sure, relative to the situation or what was witnessed. The person also has to be questioned and at times questioned more than once. An affidavit as to the “truth” of their statement means shit (as does the swearing to be truthful on a stand in front of a judge).

Usually when physical evidence can back or support testimony is where strength can be garnered.

By itself, a person’s personal experience is a very weak and unreliable form of evidence.