All religion is evil

Debate Room
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Well a cursory reading of their bible suggests an angry psychotic deity that enjoys murdering people, and encouraging it’s followers to commit acts of ethnic cleansing, then sex trafficking the female prisoners. While that deity is depicted as angrily torturing a new born baby to death, or committing genocide on a global scale.

Call me pedantic, but what use are absolute commandments from a deity that then shows it doesn’t think there is anything wrong with breaking them when the mood takes it, or encouraging its adherents to do the same?

What percentage of Christians in the US oppose the death penalty btw? That alone is enough to break any irony meter when they try to champion the ten commandments.

Well you’re new here, but we will tackle some of these generalisations at some point. I’ve met atheists, even on here, who were definitely “out of their fucking gourd.” Who believed in absurd ideas, by any objective standard. Programming Jordan springs to mind.

An atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in any deity or deities, beyond that I’m not prepared to generalise without supporting objective evidence.

There is some research that suggests atheists on the whole are at least as moral as theists, but I’d be weary of stating it as an absolute as you did there. Stalin and Mao claimed to be atheists, so when stated as you did, it’s too easy a claim to defeat, theists will leap on it everytime.

IMHO anyone who needs divine diktat, and the saccharine promise of heaven, or the threat of Hell, just to stop them committing crimes like murder and rape is just a shitty human being.

Blindly following rules isn’t morality either.

Welcome to AR by the way…

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Stalin, Mao, the Kim dynasty[*], and Pol Pot are all examples of officially atheist state leaders[†]. However, they were (for the case of the current generation Kim: are) all leaders for which supernatural or god-like qualities were/are attributed to them. Thus they were/are leaders of personality cults that in practice function as a substitute for religion. This makes sure attention is directed towards the Leader/Party/Government/Ideology instead of being diverted by religion, and also has the added benefit that worshippers of this personality cult are less likely to end up with conflicts of interest. One might be tempted to suggest the above dictators were leading a theocracy, but since their personality cults are not really recognized as religions, it doesn’t quite fit. Do we have a better word?

[*] Since the official English name of the country led by the Kims commonly referred to as North Korea is Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK), the name suggests its foundation is democracy. But I am quite certain that I have heard and read arguments that suggest otherwise[§] :thinking:
[†] Hitler, the NSDAP and the Third Reich were not officially atheist and did not oppose religion as such, but they heavy-handedly shut down and opposed religious activity that did not explicitly cooperate with the Nazi Party. But apart from not being officially atheist, Hitler fits the above narrative.
[§] Sarcasm. Footnote-footnote added for the benefit of the sarcasm-impaired.

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And you know that exactly how?

The actual commandment is ’ thou shalt commit no murder’. A crucial distinction for ancient nomadic people who are constantly fighting. To kill an enemy is not wrong, and a stranger is considered to be an enemy.

@Get_off_my_lawn

There is ancient aphorism, not sure who said it.

“To the ordinary people, the gods are real. To the wise man, foolish. To a ruler, useful” Constantine was very aware of this and used the sect which became Christianity [long after his death] to add power to him***.

Throughout recorded history, religion has tended to side with the status quo in what became a symbiotic relationship. Both Stalin and Mao stupidly tried to ban religion.

Constantine was never a Christian. There is legend that he was baptised on his death bed. A pascal wager I would think

As far as I’m aware, it was Theodosius 1 who made Christianity the state religion, not Constantine.

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Yes, by promoting the leaders to leaders “by the grace of God” or similar. However, in ancient Mesopotamia, in Egypt, in Greece, in the Alexandrian empire and its successor states, and in the Roman Empire, the leaders were regarded as gods. Not just appointed to whatever local god was in fashion, but actually living, breathing gods. We have later seen similar leadership styles in imperial China and in Japan up until the end of WW2.

So did Pol Pot. And Enver Hoxha in Albania (who should have been in the list in my previous reply). And the Kims have done so in DPRK, but as to what extent they have succeeded is difficult to say due to the lack of information flowing out of that country. Should the Kim regime fall, I suspect and fear the semi-religious activity conducted by the state in the deification of the Great Leader will be substituted with other religious or religion-like activity.

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Which is why I worded my assertion very carefully. Stating only that they claimed to be atheists, and only to show absolute claims are easy to refute, like the “atheists are good.”

One might be tempted indeed. For me the title totalitarian will do, I share Orwell’s revulsion of totalitarian leaders and states, and their religious or atheistic stance is of no relevance to me in my revulsion, which amply refutes the claim I was responding to of course.

Sound arguments, because they are based on objective evidence, again I did not claim anything beyond the fact that Stalin and Mao claimed to be atheists. The examples were chosen to illustrate how easily the posters absolute claim that “all atheists are good.”

I should have sensed your sarcasm earlier as well. :roll_eyes::grin:

A lot less typing and editing.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow::laughing:

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My thoughts exactly, but he’s new so let’s give him a chance.

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I was mocking the religion as a whole. I don’t really care what comes out of the Bible or what book there is. A lot of what I say comes from my perspective and feelings as I don’t have evidence. I don’t care if I have evidence.

When you hate something as much as I do. You want nothing more than to get rid of it. I firmly believe that all religion is bad. My feelings and my hatred is what fuels my atheism. It’s my passion. It is just my assertion and hate for Christianity.

I may not believe in the religion. But I hate it and firmly believe that it ruins lives and makes things harder on people.

I make fun of it because I feel that it’s stupid. I wish people would realize that it’s fake and that it’s all a lie. Because every insult I make towards it, I feel like I’m getting my digs in at the asshole pastor that humiliated me every chance he got. In fact, I’ve dealt with a lot of humiliation from people at churches and family members who worshipped that stupid religion. I feel like I would have had a better childhood if I’d never been introduced to Christianity.

If my mother had never told me about it or forced me to go to her church. She would have saved me a aggravation if it had never been implemented. Plus living in a tiny little bible town doesn’t help either when you have idiots telling you to go to church or what to believe. At least here, I feel like I can take a little piece of that back. Maybe there’s someone here who feels the same as I do.

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He is busy making assertions. I hope he can back them up. Or modify his position.

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There are aspects of religion that are positive. For example it produces a community that can offer support to each other. You and I may think it’s hokum, but for a person grieving a lost one, having so many people offering condolences does help.

You hate religion. I do too. But I am not as blinded by hate to also see the positive aspects that religion can offer. I believe that any aspect of religion (community, support, therapy, communication) can be better provided by other sources, but something is better than nothing for many who may not be aware of or have access to alternatives.

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I’ll second that. Case in point: For those deep, personal conversations that touch upon a person’s inner thoughts and fears, and even for conversations that touch upon health issues (where the aim is to just talk about it, not do diagnose), it can be difficult to find a conversation partner that one can trust, especially if you are shy, introverted, and/or don’t have friends you can trust. Sometimes, people just need someone to talk to that isn’t their neighbour or grocery store attendant. Ideally, a psychologist could help with this, but they are notoriously expensive, and it may be difficult to get an appointment. And some people go to their doctor. It is a well known phenomenon in my part of the world that some people, especially elderly ones, go to their GP to have those conversations. And this is where priests or clergy come into the picture, as trusted conversation partners. I would much prefer this kind of professional conversation partners to be neutral when it comes to religion and life style choices, but we’re not there yet.

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Hmmm :thinking: a common response normally from theists. Obviously a human trait, but one in which leads to faith and UN-evidenced, irrational beliefs.

wonderful
Also the calling of the extremist.
So, I assume your “hatred” would entitle you to remove a person’s right to “belief” (religious).
BTW, this is out-and-out bigotry.

Hahahaha. And it’s “love” that fuels a theist. And why does “dis-belief” need fuel?

Ahhhh … so a specific bigot.

There are a shitload of fake and lies in our society including religion.

Your old asshole pastor hasn’t given you a second thought his whole entire life.

Wahhhh… :sob:… any other “wishes” or “feel likes” that could have improved your childhood. Your mind sure has the woulda, coulda, shoulda…

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Really? What is your criteria for belief, or disbelief?

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@Sheldon @Whitefire13

I don’t know why we can’t just sit down and bash religion for fun. You guys want a lot of evidence. I thought I gave my reasons. I thought forensic anthropology based on archaic humanoids was the biggest evidence including studies on humanity showing that religion was a lie.

Is that a weak argument?

Also the bible makes no sense at all. The plotholes in the bible and the silly beliefs and lectures given at church (when I was 15 and forced to go) were stupid.

That is also why I don’t believe in Christianity. Sure, there’s no doubt that I should even give Christianity a second thought. I mostly don’t and that’s probably what is biting me in the ass on here. But I have people in my life or at work harassing me as of why I’m not a believer. So that would be what’s got me irritated this week.

I’m sorry I haven’t been giving the best reasons or the best evidence. I do feel like my reasons for believing that religion is fake are strong, while others may not feel they are the best reasons.

And I do appreciate all the help I can get into finding evidence on why religion is fake if possible.

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Go ahead, noone’s stopping you. And more people will probably join in on the fun if you keep it somewhat civilized and with humour and/or intelligence. However, what these other users react to is your positive assertions(*) and too wide generalizations, as well as your stated reason for bashing religion (“hate”). Now, there is a difference between being harsh and being hateful. Former is imho OK, latter is…a territory I would not like to go into.

(*) The users you find here tend to appreciate logic and reasoning, so when unprovable assertions are being made, they react. Same with formal or informal logic errors.

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Sorry - find a different hate group. There are lots out there. BTW they get together and “bash” away. You know, for fun.
If you have a specific issue, experience, point to make - do it. Do it well. If its just to relentlessly assert shit, laugh and “feel” somewhat (?) more intelligent/superior or whatever, you will have to do it someplace else.

OK - more specific. Personal and in context.

Well, once we get to know you, the “hub” is more appropriate for letting off steam (which we all do). Its only open to athiests.

On the debate area of the forum - you will be challenged on claims. Part of our fun.

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@Whitefire13

Sorry - find a different hate group. There are lots out there. BTW they get together and “bash” away. You know, for fun.
If you have a specific issue, experience, point to make - do it. Do it well. If its just to relentlessly assert shit, laugh and “feel” somewhat (?) more intelligent/superior or whatever, you will have to do it someplace else.

Gotcha. Thank you for the hint. Sorry I wasted your time.

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@MrDawn In here, we try to find good reasons, built on evidence and rational thought. If we accept or resort to just “feelings”, then the position of any atheist is just as weak as theists, belief without good reason (apart from personal experience).

And if one accepted personal experience, then they must also accept alien abduction stories and things like that.

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Okay. Fine. Fair Enough. You’re the boss.

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No, I am just one of many. I put my Admin hat only on when I consider action must be taken.

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Like this? :wink:

image

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