A poser for thiests

Debate Room
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And to shed further light on this verse and others, this version of events is also echoed and indeed, reinforced by Paul’s epistles. At no time does Paul claim a physical or bodily resurrection. Paul was, like the founders of “christianity” a practising jew. There are no verses in Paul that state that the resurrection of Jesus or that expected for his followers was anything but “spiritual”.

Eusebius, Tertullian, Pliny (to name a few) all took up the erroneous notion as contradictorily described in the synoptics that the resurrection was a physical event. This echoes the “magic” and divine stories that circulated about just about every Graeco-Roman and prior, god of note. Exactly the kind of insertion to be expected by Romano-Greek writers in the 1st to 3rd centuries.

Later Roman Church apologists and the advent of modern hermeneutics have managed to entirely forget and twist the meaning of the spiritual resurrection 180 degrees. Protestant churches have grabbed that and run with it into the far distance of credulity, taking the much later ravings of the addled John of Patmos and other 2nd/3rd century forgeries such as 2 Timothy, 2 Peter, Titus et al as their inspiration and trying to reconcile the original concept into a reward on Earth and an Earthlike Heaven.

In conclusion a close examination of the earliest texts and reconstructions shows us that the current crop of “Christian” churches have no theological-historical basis to preach a bodily resurrection of the jesus figure, or indeed the bodily resurrection of any of their followers at all.

As an aside, Paul (our earliest textual encounter with the jesus figure) did not mention anywhere that other great Graeco-Roman story…the virgin birth of a god.

Edit: thanks for your kind words TM…I hope this sheds even further light on the question.

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You’re a wonderful educator, @Old_man_shouts_at_cl

:grin:

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Even if you were dumb enough to imagine he lived on Earth. Everest is not in the running. Mono Kia is bigger at 10,210 meters.

If we measure from the center of the earth, Mt. Chimborazo is the highest point on the planet.

Everest just happens to be the mountain with the highest elevation as measured from sea level.

Poor poor Ratty… living in his poor poor black and white world. The walls just keep tumbeling down as he struggles to keep them up.

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It most certainly does. Hard for me to explain, but the way you explained that earlier was almost like a light switch flicked on for me. It was as if all this time there was a little “itch” I could never scratch, but I just didn’t know what it was. Then, when you gave that excellent explanation, it was like a relieved, “Ahhhhhh… That’s better.” Sounds crazy, I know, but it also helped me put a couple of other bothersome items in place. Thanks again, old friend.

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I failed geography in high school, so it is especially difficult to learn that I don’t know what the tallest mountain in the solar system is. Thank you for your sensitive words.

On a brighter note … :smiley: … the only mountain I’m currently interested in right now is Machu Picchu. I have a four day hike vacation planned with two of my older brothers in the Fall. Two days up and two days down.

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Hiking? Alpaca your suitcase for you. Be careful of the guide service. Many are incahoots with each other to rip off foreigners. And, if you get into an accident, it will be perudent and call the hospital right away. And even if you don’t plan on staying past dark, take some incadescent lights with you, because you never know. And, Peru should be pretty warm because it’s not Chile, but take a coat anyway.

Always be careful while you are there, the Illamanati are everywhere. Never trust a llama with your shit. You will get fleeced. Have a good trip, the advice is free. Noprobllama.

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Thanks! :blush: for the advice and the puns! Got a “baker’s dozen” of puns in there … wait … that’s not a pun!

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Absolutely no crazy. That “itch” started me on my thirty NO…FORTY FOUR year delve into the origins of modern religiosity. When I got into the actual history and texts it made me stop scratching.
I must add a disclaimer that when it comes to the ancient texts it is a combination of study, scholarship and the use of my psychology degree (majored in Behavioral and Industrial i the US) coupled with a bit of common sense when comparing religious supposition and known history.

People will people.

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Satanism has no magical beliefs. Not the brand I am speaking of. No heaven., No hell. Not even really a Satan. That puts them head and shoulders above your bullshit.

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image

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@WhoAreYou … so basically, your answer to substantive questions can be summarised as “my mythology says so” …

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Giving a vehicle away to a stranger in need is not inconvenient, after putting in thousands of dollars of scheduled maintenance into it? How about giving clothes away, a TV, and kitchenware, furniture, money to people on the streets or buying groceries to a complete stranger in a store who is begging or filling up a gas tank for a family who everyone else passed by?

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@WhoAreYou, you never answered my question. Have you given your ‘riches’ away as your book instructs?

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Yes, I just responded to the heart of that question

I give from every paycheck.

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That’s not what Jesus said though is it? The bible alleges that Jesus said to “sell all you possess.”

"Looking at him, Jesus showed love to him and said to him, ‘One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.’ But he was deeply dismayed by these words, and he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.” (Mark 10:21-22)

Have you sold all you possess?

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I’ve made zero comments about vehicles, vehicle maintenance, strangers, or charity. If you are going to finally respond to me; I wish you would respond to something I written; instead of something from your persecution fantasies.

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When was the last time you did any of that (out of curiosity)?

To the church? Your tithe?

You give away 10 % of your earnings so that some geezer gets to stand at the pulpit every Sunday lecturing you on how to be more like Jesus?

Why don’t you be like Jesus and give ALL your money away and help the poor and the drug addicted.

You think you’re better than me? That’s what you think , isn’t it? No, Cog. Let me go! Let me at him. I swear … if Tin Man wasn’t restraining me right now … I’d come right over there and … and … and let me tell you … you don’t want to know!!!

I help people too! I’m a good person. Why just the other day I patted my self on the back for feeding my cat. Right? How many people can say that? I’m the most caring person you’ll ever meet.

Also. I don’t:

  • spit on homeless people
  • swear at homeless people
  • steal from homeless people (what’ve they got anyway - lol - right?)
  • make faces at homeless people

I mean - Jeeze - what else do I gotta do to get into heaven?

“Verily, I say unto thou. It is harder for a rich man to ride a camel than for a poor man to thread a needle …”

Or uhhh … it made more sense when I was high.

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Adam begins his thread by misspelling “theists.” Rather odd that “atheists” contains the misspelled word and even more embarrassing when everyone realizes that atheists INSIST on their/your “intellectualism” and rational superiority over fundies and bible thumpers as your group so condescendingly refers to theists.

There is no escaping this faux pas, is there? Very amusing.

But on to the question, viz., “Can there be good without evil?”

That is precisely what there will be when we are with Nature’s God - That God, the One named in America’s Declaration of Independence. Yes indeed, there will be no evil with Him. You won’t want any part of it, causing sadness and misery.
Why then do we have so much evil here on earth?
Dennis Prager answers that question.
“Believers only have to answer why we have evil. Atheists have to answer everything else.”

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I don’t see what’s so amusing about a typo?

Now that rather facile and weeping generalisation is pretty amusing.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists outside of the human imagination?

Evil is a subjective perception.

Believers have to support their belief with sufficient objective evidence, not holding a belief does not carry any burden of proof, so he’s very wrong. He’s also a homophobic bigot…

"Prager testified in Congress in favor of the Defense of Marriage Act. Prager testified that “the acceptance of homosexuality as the equal of heterosexual marital love signifies the decline of Western civilization.”

He doesn’t seem to have read, or at least understood the first amendment either:

"In 2006, Prager criticized Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, for announcing that he would use the Quran for the reenactment of his swearing in ceremony. Prager wrote: “Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don’t serve in Congress.”

The man is clearly something of a nutjob:

"In April 2020, Prager called the COVID-19 lockdowns “the greatest mistake in the history of humanity.”[45][46] He was subsequently criticized in the media for trivializing the seriousness of the COVID-19 pandemic.[47] In a 2020 video called “‘Follow the Science’ Is a LIE”, Prager touted Sweden’s response to COVID-19 and asserted, “Sweden is the proof that lockdowns are useless”. A fact check found Prager’s claim false, as Sweden had higher rates of COVID infection and mortality than other Scandinavian countries.[48]

In a November 2021 Newsmax interview, Prager argued that “irrational fears” about people not vaccinated against COVID-19 had wrongly made them “the pariahs of America as I have not seen in my lifetime”, more than gay men and intravenous drug users during the AIDS crisis, who he inaccurately said had not been ostracized.[49][50] The Independent called his comments “alarming revisionism”.[49] In the interview, Prager also called concerns about climate change “idiotic” and “irrational”"

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Then perhaps you should take that up with Adam.

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