10 Questions Theists Can't Answer

Debate Room
142

@anon14261619

The problem with saying proved or disproved, is that it implies a binary state, rather than a critical objective weighing of available objective evidence.

FYI, there isn’t any objective evidence for any deity, so if someone believes in a deity despite this, it’s perfectly reasonable to ask how many other beliefs they hold without any objective evidence, but that form no part of their religious beliefs.

You might also want to ask theists what their criteria is for disbelieving something.

The ensuing reticence is pretty edifying. Just as it is when you ask them to demonstrate some objective evidence for any deity.

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143

Sorry use the term insufficient evidence for a god instead.

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In a word (right) and I have no problem with death, if it’s nothing I have nothing to lose either.

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Right.

Instead of saying proof, say there’s not enough evidence for a god.

And I say again if death is nothing, then I have nothing to lose.

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Well I’d say there was no objective evidence at all, I don’t consider subjective or anecdotal claims to be evidence.

The last sentence is IMHO giving too much, I have no reason to imagine anyone can survive their own physical death in any meaningful way, as again there is simply no objective evidence to support this bizarre claim.

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147

Perhaps more reasonable to say there is NO credible evidence for a god. :face_with_monocle:

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@Boomer, I will go with “no credible evidence” but I like the simplicity of Sheldon’s parroted question, the single question he asks every single theist on the site, “Can you provide any empirical evidence at all for the existence of God?” In the years I have been on the site, not one theist has responded successfully to the question. Not one.

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149

[quote=“Cognostic, post:148, topic:336”]
“Can you provide any empirical evidence at all for the existence of God?”[/quote]

Mkay. I was trying to be reasonable. I guess it’s moot; doesn’t seem to make any difference.

When I think of it, I like to cut their legs off before that point, with a different question:

“Do you concede there’s a possibility that you might be wrong?” Most won’t answer, the rest will answer in the negative. At which time I will cease trying to have a reasoned discussion with them.

At the catholic boys school I attended, one of the De La Salle brothers once said to me that ‘most people’ doubt their faith from time to time.

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150

None of that bothers me either as I am fine with just ceasing to be.

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Am yes.

If a heaven were to exist, that I will fond out when I die.

If consciousness can not survive the death of the brain I lose nothing anyways. Ceasing to be is fine by me.

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It’s also in his profile of course, I don’t think his problem is with language, but with a shocking lack of integrity.

Great, I will wait while you explain what caused the deity you imagine to be real, and no lies please, it is in your profile, and elsewhere of course.

I shan’t even feign surprise, this is of course a special pleading fallacy.

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I’ve lost and bumped into friends my whole life. I used to attribute it to being a typical Gemini trait, but then I am single, male, stubborn, entitled, pedantic, a pain in the ass to live with, and selfish, and it makes perfect sense that I move about most of my life and never bothered settling down. The American dream gene skipped right over me. I think I watched too many cowboy movies as a kid. Leaving one life behind, and heading off into the sunset and a new horizon, was always attractive to me.

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My questions for theists are as follows:

  1. If God exists, then where does God come from?
  2. If God has always existed, then why not skip a step and conclude that the Universe has always existed?
  3. If we decide that God’s origins is unknowable, then why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the Universe is unknowable?
  4. How do we determine which God (or gods) created the Universe?
  5. If God has no limitations, could He create a rock that is so heavy that it would be impossible for Him to move it?
  6. If the complexity of the Universe suggests a watchmaker (ie: “God”), then God must be more complex. Then . . . why don’t we assume that God must also have been created?
  7. If Heaven and Paradise exist for the faithful to eternally worship and praise God, then how is this different from an eternity of satisfying an omniscent being’s narcissim? Why does this appeal to anyone?
  8. Human morality is used to argue God’s existence, but humans choose any one of many thousands and thousands of religions. Why not cherry-pick the morality from the “correct” religion of one’s choice, and keep the morality while abandoning the religion? Why not just be “moral” or “good” purely for its own sake?
  9. Why do theists seem to assume that religion is the only thing that keeps us from being predatory sociopaths? Where does this assumption come from?
  10. I do decide to become a pious Christian tomorrow, then how do I decide which sect to pick? The different sects contradict each other, so the odds are overwhelming that I’ll pick the wrong sect and go to Hell for eternity anyway. How do I escape this double bind?

Any honest answers to these questions would be most appreciated.

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  1. If god is in all things, and holds all things together, explain peanut butter, and why I am more powerful than God.
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156

Explain why God can’t be measured.

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157

The scientific evidence actually indicates that god isn’t real and given that science disproved most of the bibles key events, it’s looking impossible that any of this book is true

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There is no scientific evidence suggesting God is not real. NONE, Please cite the scientific study.

Science has shown that many key biblical events did not occur as told in the Bible. That does not demonstrate there is no god. It demonstrates the Bible is not a reliable reference.

It does not look as though any books are not true. The fact is that there are truths and non-truths in all the books. Whether or not the miraculous claims can be classified as ‘non-truth’ is not necessarily as clear as you would like it to be. Why? Because that is not the way science works.

It is the responsibility of those making claims to provide evidence for the claims they make. What we can say is that the claims theists have made for God or gods is very weak. Aside from some ancient stories that are unverifiable, reports of personal experience, and easily falsifiable assertions, there isn’t much else. Most apologetics, if not all, are founded on fallacious appeals. And still, none of this can allow you to conclude, ‘God is not real,’ without being as fallacious as the theists.

To assert God is not real, you must demonstrate it with facts and evidence. How do you evidence something that you do not think is there?

The hard reality is, "There is no good reason to believe in God or gods, until such time as evidence can be provided.’ What you have in science is the null hypothesis. There is no connection between God and existence until that connection can be demonstrated. The null hypothesis can not be rejected until actual evidence is presented, That does not mean there is no god. To establish ‘No god exists’ you must meet the same burden of proof. It is enough to assert that God claims have not met their burden of proof and thus, there is no good reason to belive such claims.

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My point is more suited towards history/archaeology disproving key events in the book that connects to some of the dominating Abrahamic religions.

What you fail to understand is that if the exodus is proven to be false by historians and archaeologists God’s greatest miracle to the Jews which was successfully wandering the dessert and escaping the Egyptians is rendered utter bullshit.

Your point about it not being clear whether a miracle happened is false. We have historians and massive archaeological projects for a reason. They verified the events that the Jews claim to have happened don’t match up with history and after the digs found 0 evidence of any Jews in a group of 2 million wandering a dessert for 40 years.

This means the entire Old Testament crumbles and Judaism main holiday/celebration is seen as fake. Even if a god existed, which we cannot prove or disprove, Judaism can be proven fake through the destruction of the Old Testament.

Archaeologists have been doing excavations since the 1800s and found not a single bone, scrap of food, tool, etc where the Jews Apparenlty wandered when they escaped the pharoah for 40 years and 2 million people… Also Egypt had control of the areas that the Jews Apparenlty took over. Went from Egypt to egypt. Also no transcripts of Jews ever being slaves or any records
Of plagues ever existing have been found by professionals.

Instead of waiting for them to come up with evidence that will never be presented, why don’t you look into their historical claims in the books and prove it wrong? And if you claim they don’t take the events literally this is untrue, as when I was in an orthodox community every synagogue would take the events as literal. Why do you think they value this god so much, because his miracles were fake?

Would be a better use of your time.

Also, you can’t just pick and choose which parts of the book are real or fake, especially when one of the key events in the book is proven fake. An all knowing god would not lie about the main miracle he did to its people. This crumbles the validity of the entire religion right here.

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I didn’t fail to understand anything. One hyperbolic event does not demonstrate the entire Bible is wrong.
The parts of the Bible that are most likely to be true are those that were written at the same time as the events they describe and that have corroborating evidence from other sources. For example, archaeological evidence has supported many details in the Bible, including:

  • The existence of the Hittite Empire

The Hebrew Bible mentions the Hittite Empire, and archaeological discoveries have verified its existence.

  • The geographical details of Jesus’ life

The Gospels include many geographical details about Jesus’ life, such as the Pool of Siloam, Bethlehem, and Nazareth, and archaeological evidence has substantiated most of these details.

  • The accuracy of Luke

Luke’s use of technical terminology and references to cities, Roman provinces, and political figures has been supported by archaeological evidence.

No one is arguing the exodus happened, not from Egypt anyway. And if there was an exodus from Egypt, it did not occur the way the Bible tells the story. The Jews have an extremely long history of being kicked out of countries. Even before Egypt. The Jewish exodus from Babylonia, also known as the Babylonian Captivity or the Babylonian Exile, began when the Neo-Babylonian Empire conquered Judah in 598/7 or 587/6 BCE:

  • Captivity

The Jewish people were held captive in Babylonia for 48 or 59 years, depending on the start date of the captivity.

  • Return

In 538 BCE, the Persian conqueror Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return to Palestine. This event is known as the return to Zion.

You actually can pick what parts of the Bible are real and fake. Bart Erhman has made a Career out of doing it, and so have Richard Carrier, Diane Pagels, Dr. Robert Price, and others.

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This is objectively false in the orthodox Jewish community.

Every synagogue I’ve ever been to across the world that’s orthodox and rabbi stated in learning that these events are to be taken literally as said in the seder and recited during Passover to show proof of gods existence. “He loved the Jews so much he helped us leave egypty from pharoah.

Secondly, jusf because some of the events happened to be true historically is not proof of any religion being correct or the bible being correct.

When the foundation of a religion is proven to be historically inaccurate that is a crack in the religion.
I am specifically referencing Judaism as passover is one of the origins of the religion.

You admitted no one thinks the exodus is true, but then said we have no proof that a religion is false. This correlation does not make sense as the whole basis of Judaism is that god performed miracles to the Jews and through these events form the Jewish holidays.

I encourage you to research Judaism more and understand that the exodus being true is believed by every Orthodox Jew as an argument for god being real.