Why Theists Think We Are Arrogant

Anyone who says it like it is should be encouraged to do so. We need more people like that.

Yup! Duct tape, rope, and for permanent fixes, baling wire, can fix anything.

I appreciate everyone’s input on this. Thanks!

It sounds like a nightmare to have your well being in the hands of people who insist you share their superstitions. I can’t think of anyone more arrogant than someone who thinks they know what an all powerful god wants and this deity needs their help in implementing it.

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fuck… Okay, dammit, 'fess up. How much is Cog paying you to say that? If he told you he is paying with bananas, guess what… The joke’s on you. You would have better luck getting a bowl of honey away from a rabid badger. But - hey - you just keep believing him. Some folks have to learn the hard way, I suppose. :roll_eyes:

Especially with nothing but feelings and an opinion to support their position.

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Hey, don’t forget kite string, silly putty, and super glue.

I think you have legal standing. The court must give you a non-religious option. SOS is another option and you might check to see if there is a chapter near you. Finally, If someone has sent a report calling you arrogant for not participating in a court ordered religious ritual, you may actually have grounds for a lawsuit against the cout and certainly against the person who wrote the report calling you arrogant. All you need do to fulfill the court order is show up and get your stamp. NOTHING MORE. (Well, obviously you must abstain from alcohol. I am sure that is a part of the order.)

Okay, with that said, "What are you doig to address the real problem? "
I ran a first ttime offender’s DUI program in OC, California. During the first class I would let everyone tell their story. Over 5 years and in every single case, the drivers would talk about why they got pulled over. (I didn’t use a turn signal, I ran over a center divider, I was going too slow, I went over the double yellow. etc.) Not one of them ever mentioned, “I had too much to drink and then I decided to drive.”

People who are stoppedn for going over the double yellow, get a ticket. People who are stopped for going to slow, get a ticket. People who are stopped for failing to use a turn signal, get a ticket. People who get stopped for drinking and driving, go to alcohol recovery progams. They go there because of DRINKING The only reson to be referred to such a program is for having a drinking problem. The problem may very well be, an inability to make good decisions while drining. It is still a drinking problem. There are many ways to deal lwith this. I agree 100%, if AA is not your cup of tea, you should find something else. What you should not do is pretend this is not a serious problem. You have already stated that you could loose your job. Perhaps this experience is enough to wake you up. I am not reprimanding you or putting you down. I am only asking that you take a serious look and what is going on in your life. You are not where you are for no reason at all. Your decisions have put you where you are.

With that said, I am still 100% on your side. Whoever the asshole is that wrote that report is slandering you. His her slander could cost you your job. All you need do is show up for the fucking AA meeting. You do not need to pray, you do not need to admit you are unable to control yourslef. You do not need to get a sponsor. It would be illegal for the court to mandate any of this and it is certainly unethical for them to pay attention to any report that slandars you for not participating in their religious rituals or mandates that you admit you are an alcoholic.

Seel legal advice… No one at AA should be writing any kind of a report to a Judge. If you have a cout appointed counselor, DUMP HIM. He is responsible to the cout and will share information with the court. Get your own counselor. Your own counselor can not share information with the court without a warrant.

Wishing you luck. I honestly think you have a slandar case unless you have signed some form of release. AA can not send reports to the court. That’s just insane.

Found This:
STEP 4
“It’s important to keep in mind that AA is anonymous. You will not have to give your full name to anyone, and you will not be required to say anything at the meeting at all if you choose not to do so. AA is a mutual support group, so there are no counselors or therapists there to question or interview you.”

He asks of the man with a witch for a wife. LOL What say the pagans among us?

:joy::joy::joy: Damn good point. Can’t believe I let that one slip by me. :joy::joy::joy:

Hey, Clare, Cog ain’t lyin’. My wife is indeed Pagan, and she does consider herself to be a “witch” of sorts. But is she arrogant? Nah. She IS, however, incredibly self-assured in her beliefs and in who she is. And woe be it unto any faithful Christian who is foolish enough to engage her in a discussion about the bible and the history of most any other religion. I’ve seen her practically obliterate a few of them and leave their mangled carcasses in a pulsating heap, never knowing what hit them. She grew up going to a Christian school, from kindergarten to high school graduation. Had to pass a bible class every year to advance. (She made straight A’s in that class, and even challenged a few teachers along the way… and won.) Plus, she is an avid research fiend in regards to ancient cultures and the development of various religions. She is actually one of the main reasons I was finally able to escape my religious bonds. We have a fantastic relationship, to say the least. Anyway, what many people see as “arrogance” is most often just a strong degree of self-confidence. Just my opinion.

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My mother was like “I hope you find salvation” and I was like “I don’t believe in the Theistic notion of salvation because it’s a religious concept” and yet again had to explain to her what Atheism is. Either she doesn’t get it or she’s not listening to me because she doesn’t give a shit where I stand. Pretty sick of it honestly.

This is not what you think. It’s not a court order, and there are no judges or lawyers involved. There was no legal issue as a consequence of my condition, but rather the real problem I have is a life in remission to manage, which I have done successfully for three years.

I’ve tried Life Ring, Smart Recovery, Rational Recovery, as well as giving the traditional AA program a chance for over a year, completing all twelves steps twice. The secular AA one works perfectly for me with the augmentation of the techniques I already mentioned. Best of all, the group is a loophole that satisfies my requirement to attend AA meetings twice a week.

The issue is the company’s program, and the doctors on their payroll who evaluate me, saying my recovery without a higher power (aka God) puts me at significant risk for relapse. While they stop short of directives, they constantly harass me mostly for not towing the line like the others who really do believe or lie like hell. I say that they are lying because they privately tell me they are and recommend I do the same.

Their reports go to the federal government for review. My job is safety sensitive and federally regulated. So far, so good until now. The report that I am arrogant because I declared a disbelief in a higher power was a main reason that it bought me another year of monitoring. The other reasons were trivial, but it all adds up.

I’ve come to the conclusion to stop talking about it with my monitors. I won’t lie, but the sharing truth is definitely not helping me.

Cool! I’m happy to hear that you have a plan in action. And congratulations on your success. ITM is always present when I recall the shroom rush and the fascinating perspective. I want to argue that shrooming could be responsible for some of my crteativity. Alas, not having tripped in 35 years, those meories are still amazing and vivid as having dreamed them last night. I can see how … bla bla bla… (Opting not to go there.)

I would start saving all the reports and perhaps secretly recording some of the sessions. It really sonds like you have a case slander. Anyone basing a helth report on whether or not you have found Jesus is a fucking idiot.\

And while we are on the topic… (Give yourself credit where credit is due. It is not the program working. It does not really matter which program you go to. Some people do swear by AA and God and it does keep them off the booze. I happen to believe they are merely substituting one addiction for another. Still, they manage to stay sober and live a life they are happy with.

It is not the program. It is never about the program working. It is always about YOU working the program… Pat your self on the back for the work you have done. Fuck those assholes.and their God.

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“Substitution of addictions” is spot on.

When there is little to measure, such as simple abstinence (which they do with testing), they make up things to measure, such as belief in religion. Now that they are monitoring something, their job is justified.

Disclaimer: Okay, keep in mind what I’m about to say is coming from my own warped sense of humor. So, while I would very likely do this myself, I do not recommend you attempt it.

They want to monitor “level of religion”, huh? Personally, I would have a blast with that. I would absolutely give them something to monitor. Maybe start out slow. Arrive at a meeting carrying a bible and wearing Rosary beads. During the meeting, quote random bible verses and repeatedly say things like, “Bless you, brother. Amen. Praise the Lord. God is great.”

Next meeting, change it up a bit. Find a bunch of Jehovah’s Witness booklets, enter the meeting and ask the “monitor” if he has a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior. The meeting after that, wear a turban, bring a prayer rug, ask the monitor, “Which way is east?” Then lay the rug out, kneel down and start praying. Basically, each meeting come in with a slightly different religious practice. And if they say anything about it, “Hey, I’m just trying to decide which God is right for me.” Idiots like that fuck with me, then I have a tendency to return the favor… with interest. (Because I’m a generous guy like that. :innocent:)

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I love the shadow that lives in you. It is much like mine, and all of the writings I’ve read in this forum are very familiar. It’s neat to be among like-minded people.

I have to be careful about the battles I choose. Winning them can be very costly.

Still, having had a pretty good understanding of Christianity, I can have a lot of fun quoting the Bible back at them to show their ignorance, or simply make an original point with references to it that support the argument.

That being said, I do often think about doing things like you suggested. I can’t stand those motherfuckers.

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Believe me, I can relate. There have been many times in the past (particularly with the police and the military) when I plunged headfirst into such “battles” knowing the potential consequences. But that “dark shadow” in me you mentioned simply did not care. (And that was long before I ever escaped my religious indoctrination.) As you might expect, “winning” those battles bit me in the ass more than a few times. Worth it, though, I suppose. I have always had a very low tolerance for stupidity.

Here’s the funny part. My wife’s “dark shadow” can often rival mine in some ways. Difference, though, is she has much more patience and tolerance than I do. As such, I’ve lost count of how many times she has reigned me in from “going on the attack” against some stupid thing or another. (She thinks ahead better than I do. :joy:)

I choose not to “battle”, but slowly undermine their position and beliefs. IMO one can not win any battle of the minds in one encounter, but you can erode their confidence.

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What? I didn’t even know salvation was lost. Who the hell misplaced it? And why is it YOUR responsibility to find it? Seems a little unfair, if you ask me.

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I like your thought process, David.

Shaping and prepping can make the opponent not want to engage at all. That frees you up to use your resources elsewhere as you continue to influence him into inaction.

Reminds me of how my coach used to say, “You can’t go in all balls, all dick, and no brains!”

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Oh, yeah! The guy has been here 10 minutes and already he is sucking up to the garden gnomes.

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