False equivalence fallacy.
Faith
noun
My “faith” in science is based on overwhelming objective evidence, and the fact it is the best method we have for understanding reality, as is manifest in it’s remarkable results in a very short space of time. I have no use for religious faith, as it is useless in discerning the truth of any claim.
It is faith—you have complete confidence in science. Now, whether the reason for your confidence is reasonable or not is another question.
Look, ants could say exactly what you are saying. They have faith in their pheromone trails because of the overwhelming objective evidence that these trails lead to food, and because this is the best method they have to understand their reality. Their method has proven functional for millions of years, thoroughly tested over time.
Yet, the universe is not a pheromone trail, nor an idea or intellectual model…
Sigh…
They?
@JESUS_IS_WITH_YOU, you have exactly zero knowledge of what EACH person who identifies as atheist bases anything
Is there a reason you’re quoting my claim back to me, rather than addressing your false equivalence fallacy, that irrationally tried to equate confidence and trust in the methods of science based on its results and the fact they are based on objective evidence, with religious faith in a deity, that is unsupported by any objective evidence?
Straw man fallacy.
Science better reflects objective reality than any method we have, so that is nonsense, and you have no idea what most atheists think, this is just yet another of your tedious sweeping unevidenced claims. It borders on a no true Scotsman fallacy as well.
But the answers are fairly uniform. They tend to converge on similar ideas, and these ideas are generally based on a strong faith in science.
No, I have compared the scientific method to ants’ pheromone paths. As you know, for me, religion is something different, related to our psychological structure.
Yes, here you even repeated it here.
Do you accept this faith differs drastically from religious faith? For context here is where you originally interjected with your false equivalence fallacy.
Hey Cog, you forgot to mention Noah’s flood and his magical ark.
Hi there,
First I want everybody to know that I didn’t join this forum to persuade anyone to become a believer in God or to be persuaded to not be a believer in God(which I am.). I am trying to find the most common reasons people give for not believing. No hate here at all.
That being said, I want to comment on your remark about religion leading to violence in our history. And suffering that goes on around the world. If you blame religion for it, which I assume you are referring to the Christian religion, and in doing so it causes you to disbelieve in a God or Creator(because how could a good and loving God allow such things), who or what do you give credit too when good things happen in the world or to people or to you? If God gets the blame for what is wrong with the world, who gets applauded or even revered for all the good? Again, no hate here!!! Just a civil, friendly debate. Thank you!!
Answers to what questions?
To iterate, atheism is a simple response to one proposition. Atheism has nothing to do with anything else.
Atheists, however, are as varied as theists in thoughts, beliefs, confidences, etc. Your seeming insistence in lumping together folks who identify as atheist into one creature with many legs reeks of ignorance and bias.
I replied to your question. I am a Southern Baptist.
No where have I read in the Bible that God adopted Jesus. Jesus was God in the flesh and was on Earth for 33 years or so. My question I guess in a way is answered because of your distaste of the many denominations or editions of the Bible. With that being said, if God we’re to appear today, would you believe? Or would He have to PROVE to you that He was God? And if He proved it to you, would you even care? No disrespect here of course, but not everything can be proven. Even science and mathematics can’tdefinitively prove that the universe came from a reaction between two elements. Those 2 elements had to come from somewhere. The only rational conclusion is that there is a Creator. Only a Creator could be responsible for something coming from nothing.
That makes no sense, you couldn’t blame a non-existent deity for anything. One can either not believe a deity exists, or one could blame it for something, one cannot do both. FWIW I don’t believe any deity or deities exist, but if the one depicted in the bible or koran existed, I’d want nothing to do with it, as I find the deity described to be morally repugnant.
That seems like a begging the question fallacy to me, so I am dubious it is rational at all, but please explain why you think a creator is even a choice, let alone the only rational one?
Again you seem to be making an absolute claim, without even attempting to demonstrate any objective evidence, and who says anything came nothing, or that nothing is a possible state even?
That is just your opinion/guess, it not a fact. I was an atheist decades before I studied any science; your opinion is ludicrous, and the assumption that it has to do with faith in science seems like slander.
And lest we forget, we have had a few atheists on here in the past, who expressed some poorly reasoned and irrational guff, some of it has been bat shit crazy nonsense.
One would not assume that someone who didn’t believe in unicorns or mermaids, “were following a specific interpretation of the evidence, and this interpretation is based on a representation of reality grounded in mathematics and various conceptual models.”
So why does @JESUS_IS_WITH_YOU assume this about atheists?
Is that what you’re doing when you disbelieve in all the hundreds of thousands of deities I disbelieve in, except for one you imagine to be real?
So not believing your unevidenced claim that a deity exists is a delusion now?
delusion
noun
That is laughably wrong, and atheism isn’t a belief, and you have no objective evidence for any deity, that is axiomatic or you’d have demonstrated some, instead of endlessly irrational arguments. Delusion, you are hilarious fair play.
Priceless, you;re using a computer linked to the internet, and powered by electricity, they all work precisely because we gained a better understanding of reality, try praying for them to work, see what that caricature of reality produces.
Thanks for your reply David.
Then you are not reading the “right” version according to those who DO believe jesus was born of man but was ascended to heaven as God’s only adopted son. They would say you are not saved and need to read the right book to be heavenbound.
I suggest that for history (the first "Christians were adoptionist) you look up who the Ebionites were or you can read something [here] and here about christian foundations.
No, that is an assumption you make because of your social position,social pressures and education.
According to those who followed his teachings in the early first century CE he was the “perfect Jew” and very human.
Your particular subcult of christianity did not come into being until after the American Civil War, where you split the Baptist congregation because of the “Southern Baptist” opposition to antislavery (since repudiated) and segregation. If you go back a little further then you find that the Baptist Churches organised in 1707 so at best you are a sub cult (large I know) founded some ONE THOUSAND AND SIX HUNDRED years after the Pauline Epistles, reading a very much edited version of the ancient greek texts. .
In the meantime hundreds of cults and sub cults all worshipping a slightly different jesus and god figure have lived, expanded and finally expired or been absorbed. To read about the Marcionites you can google or follow the link below. I can send you an essay on the Ebionites if you wish that will give you some grounding in the origins of your faith. (More on Christian sects in the second to 5th centuries)
How would I know it was a god? Humans have a propensity for mistaking other humans as gods…ever hear of the Cargo Cult? Especially when their technology is very much in advance.
Even worse for you what if this god thing is not your deityofchoice if it should appear?
Of course not, “proof” is a concept for the mathematicians and alcohol makers/consumers amongst us. What I seek is good evidence. And for your particular American brand of god …I do not find any worthwhile evidence at all, especially in the last 400 years. .
Nope that is not the only conclusion possible. There is not a shred of evidence that a creator is necessary, even less evidence that it looks and behaves like the petulant, deadly toddler you believe controls your life.
Nobody I know claims that anything comes from nothing…that sounds like christian college propaganda about atheists. and so is dismissed with extreme prejudice.
I don’t blame God for these things. How can I blame God if God does not exist?
I blame religion . . . which is different from blaming God.
Also, did you consider my points about my “reverse Pasqaule’s Wager?”
List of Nobel Peace Prize Winners:
[Narges Mohammadi] “for her fight against the oppression of women in Iran and her fight to promote human rights and freedom for all”
Ales Bialiatski [Memorial and Center for Civil Liberties(https: “The Peace Prize laureates represent civil society in their home countries.
[Maria Ressa and [Dmitry Muratov: “for their efforts to safeguard freedom of expression, which is a precondition for democracy and lasting peace”
[World Food Programme: “for its efforts to combat hunger, for its contribution to bettering conditions for peace in conflict-affected areas and for acting as a driving force in efforts to prevent the use of hunger as a weapon of war and conflict”
[Abiy Ahmed Ali: “for his efforts to achieve peace and international cooperation, and in particular for his decisive initiative to resolve the border conflict with neighboring Eritrea”
Denis Mukwege and Nadia Murad: “for their efforts to end the use of sexual violence as a weapon of war and armed conflict”
How long of a list would you like? This is not even scratching the surface.
Well, keep in mind that I’m interacting with a screen, and I see similar responses. I don’t have enough information to see the personal differences between everyone, so of course I might make generalizations based on that (I’ve seen generalizations from the other side as well).
It’s inevitable to generalize when interacting through these devices, but I fully admit that I could be wrong.
Yes, the pheromone trails of ants are what feed them every day. Look how efficient they are.
If the Southern Baptist god appeared and convinced me it was genuine I’d no longer be an atheist but I sure wouldn’t worship it! I find the god in the bible stories to be a bullying, egotistical, cruel, bigoted being.
Did they? Really? How do you know that?