Who said humans should exist?

I grew up (was not “raised”) in a house with two adults and three kids, including yours truly. Parenting was non-existent. i determined early on that I wasn’t going to have kids. And I never did.

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Lovin’ the third grade, I see.

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Oh I have grandkids, it’s the one thing my ex wife couldn’t take in the divorce. That’s the great thing about being grandpa, is that children respond to kindness and generosity, and have no notion how many grandparents is the norm.

I vividly remember my grandson enthusiastically telling me his friend in school only had one lot of grandparents, but he had three, as if he’d won the three legged race on sports day. :smirk: :sunglasses:

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It is definitely a personal choice. I am happy I had a family but parenting is not for the weak and I have definitely given up a LOT to parent well. But I have 3 happy well adjusted kids so for me it is worth it. This isn’t the case for everyone. I know a couple of people who absolutely should NOT have children for various reasons. One is perfectly aware of this and content and considers our group of friends her family. I don’t know if my kids will ever have their own, I am perfectly okay with that. I don’t need grandchildren, I am looking forward to the empty nester independence.
As a woman I get tired of the constant pressure on us to reproduce and how many religious nuts view women as only a vessel for babies. It is perfectly okay for a woman to live a different life without kids and be just as fulfilled!

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The point those people are missing, is that this is a choice, so when one ties their morality, to that of bronze age patriarchal Bedouins, and tries to apply it to 21st century post industrial societies, inevitably it must go awry.

Sometimes I favor the Bronze Age folks to the modern lot.

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who said humans SHOULD exist?

that’s easy, other humans said that. humans can have an inflated sense of self-importance at some point in their lives.

you should have kids

oh boy, you have no idea how much people mock me for not having kids.

saying “you should have kids” just FEELS right for people, mainly due to the fact that the entire human race throughout history (during times when survival is not guaranteed) survived on having as many kids as possible.

Actually, birth rates are on the decline. A lot of people are refusing to have kids.

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in certain countries, yeah, but it doesn’t seem to stop the mocking (at least in my area)

I think it’s a local thing because I’m certainly acquainted with young adults who don’t plan to have children and seem to get on fine.

A lot probably depends on the parents not demanding grandchildren like a divine right. My wife & I aren’t into that and I think it’s increasingly unpopular to have such expectations. My stepdaughter, age 31, isn’t married much less trying for children, is in no hurry and ambivalent about whether she will take that step in life. I think at least being open to being childless is important with all the difficulty and peril in the world right now. I question the sanity of people who aren’t at least given pause about bringing children into the world just because it’s a personal dream or something.

Something’s gotta give in this fundamentally broken economy & country and so one expensive thing more folks are jettisoning is kids. Being car-poor is another formerly sacred thing in the USA that seems to have lost its appeal, at least for people who live anywhere that public transportation is available.

You just have to “do you” and let the chips fall.

Next time some asshole mocks you for not having kids, turn the table and mock them for not going to medical school. The cost is identical, the benefits of each are equally as dubious. You want me to generate life, well I want you to save life. Now, go fuck off.

I had two kids. Would I do it again knowing what I know now? I don’t think so. Not because I hate children…OK, well some people’s kids…but because most people should not have kids as they lack the parenting skills to do it well. I was no shining example…

Early in working with horses I spent time working on a breeding farm. We had this one foal, Burlon, who was destined to become a stallion. Long story short, he was a hormonal Tasmanian Devil. In 25 years he was the only horse that I was convinced wanted to kill me…and anything else he met.

After a year of working with this horse we finally had to geld him. Within 30 days he was back to his adorable self and turned out to be one of the best horses I’ve ever worked with.

Months later I was at a horse show and attending a clinic on stallion care. There was a trainer and a veterinarian talking in the hallway afterwards. I joined them to tell the story of Burlon.

After listening, the trainer said, “95% of all stallions should be gelded.” I turned to the vet, and he just remarked, “Yeah, passing down bad genetic and personality traits for the sake of a bloodline is counter productive to a breed.”

Driving home it struck me…shit, this applies to humans,too…

The Elohim said humanity should exist.

The prophets of Baal said Elohim should not exist…