Well hell, I missed the National Day of Prayer (May 6)

…plus a gun culture that explicitly encourages use of fire arms for self defense, and laws and culture that permits (and even encourages) carrying weapons openly.

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@Kellii

Yeah, I thought our friend was being perhaps a smidge naive or disingenuous :thinking:

I was able to do a quick Google search, and if I wish, I could download and print out a 3d gun.

Too easy, much too easy.

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Most intelligent thing said on the forum yet. No “Drinking and Shooting” law would be perfect. If you discharge a gun, you had better not have been drinking. The “Use a gun, go to jail,” laws were a great move… (They are almost never enforced.)

In Massachusetts, the hallmark of gun law, there is a law called Bartley-Fox which was passed back in 1974. Basically, the law states that if you are found in the state with a gun under your control and you do not have the Massachusetts issued license for that gun, you will spend a mandatory year in prison. (Great Law! No legal gun owner is afraid of reasonable regulation.) So why do the felons still have guns? The office of Attorney General Maura Healey does not even use the law. Christopher Siano, 30+ years as a firearms instructor.

Here is a remarkable case…

It shall be illegal for any felon to be in posession of any gun. A case before the Verginia Circut Court (Section 922g) Violation are subject to prison for up to 10 years.

“Before the court’s decision a majority of circuts had already barred the government from providing the nature of a defendant’s prior felony, or at least suggested that admission of such evidence would be considered abuse of discretion.”

Gun laws are being systematically ignored by law enforcement and the legal system all across the country.

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Is it just me being too sensitive or was that just a smidge fucking patronising :thinking:

No… just agreeing… 19, 20.

Facile as ever baby…

Straw man fallacy.

I think you mean will not, and since they have been demonstrated to work in multiple other countries I’m dubious. The prevalence of guns is a separate problem, but again it’s axiomatic that the easier it is for criminals to acquire guns the more of a problem it becomes.

However, the kind of mass shootings we see that are almost unique in the US have little to do with criminals acquiring guns.

Again this is demonstrably false, as we have multiple examples to disprove this, though of course strict gun ownership laws are useless if you allow gun manufacturers to flood the country with cheap guns.

It’s not a genie, it’s a lack of political will to tackle wealthy and powerful gun manufacturers, and a pernicious but longstanding cultural attitude.

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Indeed, and as far as gun sports go, other countries that have such laws seem to manage, so it’s not a direct trade off one assumes.

As long as enough people feel safer with a gun than without, then tackling the culture of gun ownership is going to be very difficult.

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In my country, guns for self defense has never been an issue. People just don’t keep guns to feel safe.

Historically in this country, we have had, and still have, a pretty high gun ownership. And the gun culture is very much influenced by this, which emphasizes responsible gun keeping:

Det frivillige Skyttervesen (DFS) (lit. ‘The Voluntary Shooters Association’), also known as The Norwegian Civilian Marksmanship Association,[2] is a civilian marksmanship association in Norway and the largest shooting sport organization in Norway. It was created in 1893 by Norway’s Storting to promote practical shooting skills within the Norwegian people, thereby empowering the national defence.[3] DFS is sponsored by the Norwegian parliament and receives annually about 30 million Norwegian krones to fulfil their purpose.[4] DFS collaborates with various departments in the Norwegian Armed Forces by educating shooting instructors.[5] They also lend their shooting ranges for free to the Norwegian Home Guard.[6] DFS is under the patronage of Harald V of Norway.[7]

It is a desired policy here, and works quite well to educate gun owners.

During the cold war, active members of the Home Guard kept a fully automatic assault rifle at home. There were some incidents where (typically) mentally unstable persons used these for killiing or for commiting suicide. But any comparison with what we see in the USA today is far out there —> (outer space). There were also some incidents with burglary and theft of these rifles. Nowadays, these military firearms are kept at strategically placed secure firearms caches.

In any case, gun use for self defense is not an issue here. Most illegal gun use is between rival criminal gangs, and these guns are obtained illegally anyway.

Granted, we had this infamous incident in 2011. The gun used was a hunting rifle, obtained legally. In any case, a person determined enough to go into this level of meticulous planning for a mass murder will not be stopped by gun laws. If you have the money and are determined enough, you will eventually get what you need, whether through masquerading as a legitimate gun user for long enough, or by obtaining the weapon(s) illegally. If the terrorist in question here hadn’t obtained a gun, he would have pursued other means of creating havoc.

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Sadly this is very true. Though the kind of mass shootings we see in the US have little in common with this.

In the UK getting firearms licence is extremely difficult. Pretty sure the Chief Constable has to sign off on the application as well. That certainly used to be the case the case.

A shotgun certificate is a separate application entirely.

As you say any criminal determined enough can get hold of a gun. Paradoxically gun crime isn’t endemic. If someone is shot, even a criminal by the police, all Hell breaks loose, it’d be a national story.

From Forbes

There have been 147 mass shootings this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive, which defines a mass shooting as when four or more people have been shot or killed, not including the shooter.

The U.S. was wracked by a record high 610 mass shootings in 2020, the most of any year since the organization began tracking the number in 2014.

This year, the U.S. is on pace to have 511 mass shootings—more than any year between 2014 and 2019—though mass shootings are historically more likely to occur during the latter half of the year, meaning the rate could increase.

In 2019, there were 417 mass shootings, up from 337 in 2018.

Nearly 20,000 Americans died from gun violence in 2020, more than any year in two decades in what was the highest one-year jump in homicides since the U.S. began keeping records in the 20th century, according to the Washington Post, while about 24,000 died by suicide using a gun.

The U.S. is currently on pace for about as many Americans to die from gun violence as last year, with 5,415 killed so far.

That is technically true; but is kind of misleading. In practice; automatic weapons are in almost all cases; highly illegal.

There are of course exceptions: government employees, antiques, arms dealers, etc.

Someone up there asked something like, “Name a gun that has been banned?” Something to that effect…

The U.S. Once Had A Ban On Assault Weapons — Why Did It Expire? (FYI)

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750656174/the-u-s-once-had-a-ban-on-assault-weapons-why-did-it-expire

Just a quick search - nothing intensive, but I was curious if mass shooting declined during that decade.

Yup.

Nope… Read the article… It all depended on how “mass shooting was defined.”
Net result “Effects were neglegable.”

" What effect did the ban have?

Today we can look back at the 10 years of the ban and at 15 years since its expiration.

Critics of the ban have argued that it violated Second Amendment rights while accomplishing little, and evidence suggests it did not do much to reduce the incidence of gun violence overall.

What it did, its defenders reply, was reduce the number of people killed in mass shootings.

Americans Largely Support Gun Restrictions To 'Do Something' About Gun Violence

POLITICS

Americans Largely Support Gun Restrictions To ‘Do Something’ About Gun Violence

Both sides of the debate claim vindication in subsequent research. Comparing the various studies is difficult because they use different definitions of “assault weapon” and mass shooting.

One thing is clear: Assault weapons like those once restricted by the ban were used in the most memorable events that have defined the current era of random massacre, including at Sandy Hook in 2012, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., in 2018 — and this month in Texas and Ohio.

They are the emblem of the nation’s soul sickness over these tragedies.

So today Democratic candidates stand by the assault weapons ban, despite its political costs in the past and potential costs in the future."

THE DEBATE RAGES ON…

Hey! Hey :rage:- you calling me a liar (lol)…

Conclusion: Mass-shooting related homicides in the United States were reduced during the years of the federal assault weapons ban of 1994 to 2004.

I did not read the full text articles in their links just the summary.

Ahhh -
Like with any good data - especially agenda driven (both sides) data can always be “tweaked”.

Maybe Americans just like killing other Americans. Might just be that simple.

Yep. Both sides skewing the data to fit their agenda. At the same time… if it was that clear cut, this probably would not be possible.

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You are never going to remove all of the guns owned by law abiding citizens from the current situation, and assholes in this country will always be able to get guns illegally. In the US, the best way to stop a “bad” guy with a gun is a “good” guy with a gun, the police can’t be everywhere all at once, so citizens with carry-permits are your next best option.

Our son has a carry permit and occasionally takes his .45 pistol with him, it depends on the situation and the location. Armed citizens prevent crimes against themselves and others on a daily basis, but our fucking media-liars never report any of this because it doesn’t fit their narrative.

By the way, don’t you think that all of this BLM and ANTIFA bullshit is contributing to what’s happening in the US right now?
If I remember correctly, the latest numbers show that there are over 400 million registered weapons in the US. Good luck doing the same thing that they did in Australia, it’s not going to happen.