To our lurkers and new arrivals

So your answer is a “no”? you have no systematic way to demonstrate that some proffered evidence is evidence for or against “god”, this is what I expected.

WAY back in this thread it was already established that the deity idea is unfalsifiable :woman_shrugging:t2:

The reason any logical/reasonable person would withhold belief or confidence (my preferred word for an amount of trust in a hypothesis).

Oh there have been pseudo-answers, I’ll admit that but not answers. Answers like “there must be objective evidence” and “claims must be verifiable” and so on, but these are evasive, couched in seemingly intelligent terms but vacuous nevertheless.

What experiments does one do with some data, some observation? what does one do with the results in order to decide if the data is or is not evidence for God? what does one look for exactly?

The process, the reasoning given here by atheists is logically indistinguishable from an out of hand, unconditional rejection.

This remains unanswered, plenty of pseudo answers but no real, tangible, honest answer - and that’s because you don’t know, no atheist knows, it all bluster and pretention.

TBH, I was trying not to say that, it seemed impolite, but might increased traffic be a factor in that case? It’s probably my warped perception, as it often seems to happen in the middle of a long exchange. Maybe my frustration just distorted this, I was in the pub last night anyway, so had a ready distraction.

Those are answers that align with reality.
YOU don’t have to like the answers, BUT they are answers.

THAT is for a theist to figure out. It’s their claim.

ALL I had wanted to know was what YOU used (doesn’t have to be falsifiable) as a standard for evidence to come to your conclusions. It should be a standard that can at least separate your deity from the many others that are presented.

IT could just be your birth place.

Seriously. That would be an answer. I was born “here” and “raised” this way, so I’m “full in the blank”.

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I would bet it sure could.

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No one can prove or disprove the existence of a deity. If you have invented a science that can do that, go collect your Nobel Prize.

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Hey, Sherlock! What part of “Take your bullshit to another thread” did you not understand?

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I already addressed this.

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No, being an atheist is your claim, it is the atheist that announces they are atheist, that they have no reason to adopt a belief in God, the atheist has decided that they are an atheist!

So the question what would be a reason, arises very naturally as part of that.

If you can present no reason then it is what I said it was - a vacuous, empty assertion, a non-position.

Wrong again. She was meaning about your questions. If you’re wanting to pursue being a Christian, than those questions that you asked are more relevant to you and those whom are Christian. They are of no importance to an atheist, period.

That is your opinion. The feelings mutual, I don’t give a shit about what you think about atheists. Just say you’re an asshole, we’ll understand.

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I didn’t deiced to be an atheist. Adults told me about god when I was a kid; I didn’t believe them. When I got older I found out people like me were called atheists, so here I am.

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But the list of definitions of atheist (and there are several) has never included “One who does not believe another person’s claims about God”. By that measure I’m an atheist.

That’s the direction I went in as well. My mother and her friends wanted me to go to church and read child bible story books. So I went and quickly figured out that they were fairy tales. I never cared about Christianity nor believed any of it was real even when I was a little kid. I did try to believe in it for others who wanted me to believe, but I was just unable to comply with their selfish wants.

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It hasn’t? To exercise a tact you took earlier, can you demonstrate that?

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congratulations :partying_face:

Glad you made that “choice”!

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Exactly! BINGO

No reason. Simple.

Quite frankly I’m unsure why you are here :woman_shrugging:t2:

You have your answers. You cherry pick and create straw-men.

IS YOUR position to believe everything presented to you without reason?

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So what then would be a reason? This is the crux of the weakness in atheism as an idea, as a belief.

It’s useless to declare “I have no reason to believe proposition X” if one cannot articulate what would be a reason to believe it.

What would you see as sufficient reason to believe the Universe was created by an intelligent agency?

You can either state a reasonably clear set of conditions for adopting a belief or you can just say that you do not know, that you cannot think of any circumstances that would lead to adopt that belief.

In my case I adopted the belief for a reason while studying theoretical physics, general relativity. It began to dawn on me - at a very deep level - that nothing is explained by science. That is we seek deeper causes for things and then once we have these well described, we seek further even deeper causes for those things.

Now if I am willing to say “So be it, it must be infinite, unending, always another layer” then I have to admit that in a very deep epistemological sense that the universe has no explanation at all.

The only alternative to that is that there is an explanation but it is non-material (that is not in accord with laws), the explanation is something outside of science. For something to happen, for laws to come into existence and in a way that is not itself subject to laws of nature, can only mean that there was a will, an intent, a directed intelligence.

The modern world is becoming steeped more and more in scientism rather than science, a deeply held belief system in which the only true explanations are scientific explanations.

AND once again an “answer” isn’t forthcoming.

I am giving you an official warning as a mod that you are now stepping into “troll” territory.

Very well, I will depart.