This is how some theist organizations operate?

Yes, we are off-topic. The EEOC and Affirmative action are USELESS. IMO. I made my points above.
Then we moved on to the same issues in Education, where the exact same thing is occurring.

From the American Institute for Economic Research.
“Without racial preferences, students would be accepted where they are a good match academically. Elite institutions would have fewer “diverse” students and other, somewhat less prestigious ones would have more of them. Why would that be harmful to science or anything else? It wouldn’t be.”
“There is good reason to believe that it would be better for the students. That is because it’s no benefit to be put into competition where most of your fellow students are more prepared for academic rigor than you are. We’ve known that for nearly twenty years.”

This has been an ongoing debate at universities and in the workplace for decades. We will not solve it here I’m sure.

No. The Nordics are all approximately equal in wealth inequality. Gini index: Denmark 27.7, Finland 27.1, Iceland 26.1, Norway 27.7, Sweden 28.9. By comparison, the US has a Gini index of 39.7 (higher Gini index means more inequality). Slovakia has the lowest inequality with an index of 23.2.

The Nordic countries are all built on social democracy and market economies. Today, terms like “welfare capitalism” is also used;

The five Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) are often characterised as being welfare capitalist, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention.

Yes, Sweden (#7 on the Forbes list) not only has more billionaires per capita than Norway, but also more than the US, as per Forbes. The US and Norway are comparable in this respect, with the US ranked #11 and Norway #13 in billionaires per capita (source). Still, the Nordics have less inequality than the USA.

Edited to add: BTW, I wonder why you call Sweden socialist, while on the other hand you call Norway “mixed”. The Nordics have quite similar approaches to organisation of the societies and the economies, so it makes little sense to make that distinction.


Considering who throws a lot of money into this organization, and its foundation in Libertarianism (can’t help but mention it also sponsored The Great Barrington Resolution and are climate change deniers), it might be juuusssttttt a wee biased.
Oh, and didn’t you earlier disparage non-profit organizations?

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Meanwhile, here’s how the theocrats think, and this one’s no kess a specimen than Alito on the Supreme Court:

It’s rampant Christofascist Dominionism run riot.


I find it beyond ironic that judges, particularly Supreme Court justices, who’s thinking you’d think would be entirely evidence-based, put so much stock in ancient superstitions.

I’d like to ask Alito, or one of the other Catholics on the SC, how they’d react if they were presiding over a criminal trial and a prosecutor did this during opening arguments:

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I will not be presenting any actual evidence in this case, but I have complete faith that the defendant is guilty. I know in my heart that he did it and expect you to find him guilty based on that”.


You also have the intervening variables of size, demographics, oil exports, and a massive fishing industry for Norway. A very rich country.

Iceland is great! I loved my time there. Back when I was there is was the only European country that grew tropical fruit. Massive tropical fruit farming heated with geothermal power. Very impressive. The volcanoes are awesome and the heated swimming holes are amazing. Back to finances. I think we are comparing apples and oranges. Again we have an intervening variable of the population.

Okay, all that aside… I am with you. Something needs to change. A mixed system, a different system a more egalitarian system, something does need to change. Are you going to pull a Mao and just hang all the rich, steal their property, nationalize their businesses, and force them into labor camps?

Latest on Iceland by the way…
Wealth inequality continues to grow in Iceland, to where the richest 5% of the country own nearly 50% of all available money. These levels are comparable to where they were just before Iceland’s financial collapse. Jan 21, 2015

Denmark certainly has its problems, but it does have a significant middle class:
There is a lot of old wealth - IIRC Denmark has fairly high inequality regarding ownership of assets. Danish corporations are private entities, that aren’t listed on the stock market. (Take Sunset Boulevard, for instance) A work-around for home ownership is to have a company by a home and then rent it to a family.

So, are these countries better? Or do they just have their own sets of problems?

One very real thing the USA could make massive improvements on is health care. I’m sure we could agree on that. It’s insane that the number one cause of bankruptcy in the USA is medical expenses. We do not take care of the sick or elderly. That is just wrong. (I qualify sick by extending it to the mentally ill as well.) We do a shit job of taking care of people who need care and a wonderful job of allowing people who do not need care to abuse our system of care.

I honestly don’t have any answers. Back to EEOC. and Affirmative Action. It’s not working.

I did not disparage non-profit organizations.
I clearly stated how they made their money and brought clarity to the facts of hiring practices. I don’t think anything is disparaging in that at all. They are survival facts for anyone wanting to run a non-profit and get government funding. I think we should be legally allowed to be honest about it.

Who makes the arguments, does not negate the credibility of the arguments. We are not talking about climate change? And I wonder what you mean by climate change but that is another thread. The climate has always changed.


Anyway, we are way out in left field here on political agendas, global warming, and political and economic systems. All we were discussing is NPs, EEOC, and Affirmative Action. I get all the comparisons. It does not change the fact that the government is forcing people to hire minorities to meet quotas and hold funding hostage. Any company failing to hire minorities to meet quotas can be sued for discriminatory practices. EEOC is not working, Affirmative Acton is not working. Perhaps it was useful once. It was certainly a change.

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Despite the differences in the industries characteristic for each country, you’ll find (if you look more closely) that the Nordics are more similar than dissimilar in societal structures, legal and judicial structure, political structure, and in economics. Characterising Sweden as “socialist” and Norway as “mixed” is a massive misjudgement. Both have mixed economies, with “welfare capitalism”, “social democracy”, or whatever you might call it. Same with Denmark, Finland and Iceland. There is a very good reason the Nordics have had longtime mutual agreements for their citizens to just move to one of the other countries, get a job and settle, no passport or residence permit needed to enter or reside (before Finland and Sweden became members of the EU, all the ID we needed when travelling over land or air to to one of the other countres was to say the magic words “I’m Danish/Finnish/Icelandic/Norwegian/Swedish”, and whoosh, no passport checks were necessary). We had the free movement of people between the countries before the EU did. And now with Sweden and Finland also in NATO, we are even military allies, knitting the countries even closer together. My guess is that the Nordics will eventually turn out to become its own sub-block within NATO, and there are already concrete plans to have a joint Nordic military air force command. Over time probably also even for the other parts of our military forces.

But I digress. In any case, painting those artificial differences that you do, demonstrates that you don’t really understand how similar these countries are.

I have no clue what you are talking about here. Are you drawing a caricature over our societal structure, based on misunderstandings?

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Artivicial? LOL DENMARK 5.903 million (2022)
SWEENEN 10.49 million (2022)
NORWAY 5.457 million (2022)
USA 333.3 million (2022)

You’re comparing apples to oranges.
I am not opposed to the idea of a modified system of capitalism. Not in any way.
I am opposed to all the abuses happening in our current system of welfare EEOC and Affirmitive action. What we are doing is not working and doing more of the same just seems foolish.

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Please show me where where the EEOC validates this assertion in written policy.


41 CFR 60-2.16
C: " Where, pursuant to § 60-2.15, a contractor is required to establish a placement goal for a particular job group, the contractor must establish a percentage annual placement goal at least equal to the availability figure derived for women or minorities, as appropriate, for that job group."

D: “The placement goal-setting process described above contemplates that contractors will, where required, establish a single goal for all minorities. In the event of a substantial disparity in the utilization of a particular minority group or in the utilization of men or women of a particular minority group, a contractor may be required to establish separate goals for those groups.”

They do lots of covering their butt and saying this is not intended to replace qualified individuals; however, if you miss your quotas for 3 consecutive reporting periods, your contract is ended. That’s the way it is.

This is not hidden knowledge.

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I think equating NP’s to churches is disparaging. I don’t think you are reflecting non-profits at least not the ones that actually provide a service to clients. You seem to be describing large charities that have the funding capacity to hire professional fundraisers like telemarketing firms and the like.

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Oops my bad for some reason I thought it logical to look at the EEOC website rather some federal code of regulations. But I did try your link and so got there. Its too late to analyze it thoroughly but from a cursory scan I think you may not have presented a fair picture. Is the phrase cherry picking known in the US. Cheers

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You haven’t been paying attention here. I’m talking about the top three in your list, and take issues with the way you call Sweden “socialist” and Norway “mixed”, as if there is some radical difference bwteen the two. On this issue, I’m not mentioning the USA at all. So please do not put words in my mouth. So now, go back and read what I actually wrote.

Where I did mention the USA was in the comparison of billionaires per capita;

where the USA is only mentioned as per its position on the list, and that with relatively similar numbers of billionaires/capita, the unequality in the US is bigger than in Norway. And earlier, I mention tuition rates;

and the different approaches;

…which is not relevant in any way to making the (erroneous) distinction between the systems in Norway and Sweden, as if they were very different. And on this issue, what’s going on in the USA, and what is possible or not there, is irrelevant.

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Which is why, when Scotland leaves the little Englanders it will probably join the Nordic defence/trading bloc before the EU.

They are not much different. Have you any idea what a good fundraiser earns? These so-called charities are ‘For for-profit businesses’ if they are successful. They ruthlessly compete with one another just like the rest of the business world. They are dishonest about the money they spend on the poor. And they have to be out of necessity. I give you the United Way and The Red Cross for prime examples. The United Way has been scamming people for years as has the Red Cross.

I won’t assert that you can’t find a good charity but all that I know of are involved in some sort of illegitimate scandal.

The recently issued 2020 Report to the Nations, copyright 2020 by the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, Inc. (ACFE), is a biennial study examining more than 2,500 cases of occupational fraud investigated between January 2018 and September 2019. This study was designed to examine the costs, methods, victims, and perpetrators of occupational fraud, and includes 23 major industries and data from 125 countries.

Review the key takeaways for the nonprofit industry and consider proactive measures your organization can implement to help mitigate the risk of fraud.

Takeaways for nonprofits

  1. The study found that nonprofits represented 9% of the fraud cases and suffered a median loss of $75,000. Of the nonprofit cases, the average loss was $639,000.

  2. The top three control weaknesses facing the industry were:

a. Lack of internal controls — 35%
b. Lack of management review — 19%
c. Override of existing internal controls — 14%

  1. The top detection methods:

a. Tip or complaint — 40%
b. Internal audit (not external audits like your financial statement audit) — 17%
c. Management review — 13%
d. By accident — 7%
e. Examination of documents — 6%

  1. The top five schemes facing the industry were:

BINGO! a. Corruption — 41%
BINGO! c. Expense reimbursements — 23%
BINGO! d. Cash on hand — 17%
BINGO e. Noncash — 16%! (Office items, other goods, like food.)

  1. The common perpetrator at nonprofit organizations:

BINGO! a. Executive — 39% of cases with a median loss of $250,000
BINGO1 b. Manager or supervisor — 35% of cases with a median loss of $95,000
BINGO1 c. Employee — 23% of cases with a median loss of $21,000

The higher up the ladder you are the easier it is to help yourself to money and goods. This is so frigging common. I am surprised you even question it.

I think you’re equating professional fundraisers with the charities (NP) that employ them. but I can see that your opinion and mine differ because my experience in Canada is different than yours in the ununited states.

Thank you for highlighting the vagaries of a capitalist country where me, me trumps us us.

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Is it not just the vagaries of the business world in general? I don’t know that capitalism has a lock on fraud and corruption but I know it is present.

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