Theists And The Belief Of Heaven

I am not making any claims instead trying to only ask questions.

Theists like Christians claim there’s a heaven, is there anyway to even know that with a lack for evidence of any god???

Since there’s so many things we don’t know, what if there was some sort of heaven?

Hm, did the question seem right?

I welcome all replies.

Including to tell me if I have F**K ups.

Oh FievelJ, you poor sod. You would not recognize a claim if it was sitting right over the top of this very post. It merely appear a lost cause to me.

All of them? (Is that a claim?) /Ahenmm…:Theists are Christians. Theists are people who believe in gods. Theists - people that believe in gods. A-theists - people who do not believe in gods. (Not all theists believe there is a heaven. Not all Christians claim there is a heaven, Some Christians, for example, believe you get your own planet and become a god yourself.

Another Claim? Can you prove there are so many things we don’t know? How do you know we don’t know. Just because you don’t know, does that mean ‘we’ don’t know? Who is this ‘we’ you refer to?

There is some sort of heaven. How is it you are not seeing it? I have a picture of it on my cell phone, I just happened to be out walking last weekend on a clear and calm gray sky morning and snapped a shot of the glowing crescent moon with Venus shining bright over the still waters of the dark reflecting bay as it shown the sky above the hills. The fact that you can’t see heaven does not mean it is not there. And you have obviously never been hit with a rolling pin.

Do you even understand the replies you get or is your head so burIed in that bong that you just stopped giving a shit?

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The ultimate question was how do we know if there is or isn’t a heaven. I was trying not to make any actual claims.

There’s many things I would rather just say “I don’t know” instead of trying to assume it.

I just told you there was a heaven and you are missing it. How do you know there is no heaven? You made at least 3 claims.

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Not right now high and don’t give a f**k about the subject just now.

watching Airplane II

Is it possible for the supernatural/paranormal etc to exist without a god? Of course. However, I have no reason to believe if such things exist that ‘god did it’ . No more than the existence of the universe necessarily means there’s a god.

Do I believe? No. For the same reason I do not believe in gods(s); lack of empirical evidence.

Perhaps try this in future: When you come up with a question about anything not material, which cannot be seen or measured, perhaps first ask Dr Google, he’s your friend.

Continuing to ask the same kinds of questions makes you look disingenuous and a bit dim and it’s annoying… It’s been a bit old for some time. Do try not to do it anymore, there’s a good chap.

Please don’t apologise, just stop doing, and start thinking for yourself.


Agreed. Whew and not a false dichotomy :smirk:

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The question is worded so as to make a rational answer impossible I’d say, as there is no objective evidence that either concept is possible. So the answer should be I don’t know, but a hypothetical response could be based in an accurate description of both concepts. Then of course the most you could say is that it was, or was not, hypothetically possible, based on one’s hypothetical descriptions of those two concepts.

The question sounds to me like asking if unicorns are possible without mermaids. It’s a nonsensical and irrational question to me.

However it would be equally irrational to claim a supernatural event must evidence a deity.

So for example, claims that miracles are supernatural would need to evidence that claim, not just assert that there is no other explanation, but even then they would need to demonstrate sufficient objective evidence that the cause was a deity.

Again this strikes me as speculative and irrational. Why is it a question at all? What objective evidence can anyone demonstrate for the concept?

Until some data is offered beyond blind belief or subjective unevidenced claims, there is nothing to examine. Like asking how do we know unicorns are white, or have a horn?

As Boomer says, endlessly asking hypothetical questions is not helpful, and mildly irritating.

Let theists make their own wild speculations for what they believe. All you have to do rationally is set the same standard of belief for all claims.


I’ll change my position slightly. Perhaps that such things are as possible as a god. I don’t know, I simply don’t believe for lack of evidence.

That so far we are not able to say whether either a god or the supernatural is possible or impossible, we just do not know.

A skeptic, I try to avoid the term ‘impossible’ when referring to metaphysical concepts, or even physical ones, not being a trained scientist. I have no problem saying “I don’t know”. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to admit ignorance as long as one is one willing to learn. I guess that’s why I’m so hostile to most apologists; they remain wilfully ignorant regardless of facts or the lack of them…

I’m also an agnostic atheist. I do not believe nor claim to know. I admit the possibility of error. To me that seems like myself and other agnostic atheists are accepting the possibility of things for which there is no evidence. gods. I this a matter of semantics or an error of logic?

My default position is that the concept of god is unfalsifiable. So too the supernatural. I contend that such concepts cannot be argue into or out of existence.

Now I’ve gotten all confused again. :crazy_face:

The ultimate question was how do we know if there are or aren’t Leprachauns.

The ultimate question was how do we know if there are or aren’t Unicorns.

The ultimate question was how do we know if there are or aren’t invisible fairies.

By testing, observation, and confirmation by other parties. If there is noting to test, then the proposition can not be proven or disproven. Personally I do not waste my time speculating on “what ifs”, because there are billions of “what ifs”.

Not sure that is the ultimate question, although most people seem to think it’s an important one. I’d certainly feel better knowing for sure. I’ve always thought ‘what is the meaning of life?’ was the question. The answer is of course 42

Short answer; nobody knows about heaven, regardless if what they claim…

For fuck sake Fievel, do have a go at thinking for yourself. Is it because you’ve never had much practice, are incapable, lazy or some other reason?


OFF TOPIC: Not conclusively demonstrated, but there is a link between frequent use of weed, physical ailments such as brain aneurisms and various mental health issues*** Not sure what people who smoke a lot of weed are called these days, but your posts seem to have the flavour of coming from {a weed addled?] brain, imo.


*** the opinion of my GP. Perhaps a post hoc fallacy, but; a bloke I knew smoked weed 2-3 times each day for several years… He suffered from a brain aneurism and was invalided from work. He was 28…

PS why do you insist on reporting that you’re high or don’t care? Am I supposed to care or be impressed? I don’t and I’m not…

I know what you mean, I’m so used to theistic hyperbole leaping on statements with dishonest semantics, that I’m pretty careful what I say myself.

However when they tax my patience, I tend to set a simple trap using semantics myself.

For instance whilst I’m perfectly happy to say I don’t know whether a deity is possible or not. I will often switch to the more loaded, but equally rational phrase, we don’t even now that a deity is possible, let alone how probable it is. They often see the danger here, but can’t avoid a contrary claim, even though the statement is clearly one of agnosticism.

I usually use that in response to theists who relentlessly make the assertion that a more probable explanation for an extant universe must involve an unevidenced deity from an archaic superstition, using unevidenced magic.

More probable than what one wonders? Presumably an as yet unexplained and not yet understood natural phenomenon or phenomena.

Given every single cause we understand is natural with no metaphysical or supernatural cause or component of any cause ever being objectively evidenced even once, it’s hilarious they don’t see how irrational the claim is.

So for me questions like “is there a deity?” Or “is there an afterlife, or heaven?” Are no different to asking do mermaids have to remain wet, or are unicorns always white, with a horn?

They simply make no rational sense to me.

It doesn’t help the theistic cause of course that all their arguments contain known logical fallacies, and no objective evidence.