Question 1: Kalam Cosmological Argument

Such a common tactic with theists. Shift the conversation. Shift the burden of proof, Squirm, wriggle, evade, try an emotional appeal and finally when all else has failed… “Well, ya gotta have faith.”
Horse shit from beginning to end.

But you love poo-flinging AND there’s lots
here. Same :poop: different piles.

@studentfinalpaper

Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity YES or NO?

If you’re claiming it’s yes then please present it.

Do you accept that the KCA you cited in your OP contains several known logical fallacies YES or NO?

How can infinite regress be impossible and illogical as you claim, if a deity has always existed, as you also claim.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for your assumption a deity is “beginning-less”?

When the KCA says in its first premise that everything that begins to exist has a cause. How many of those examples can you demonstrate any objective evidence had a supernatural cause, or that started to exist outside of the temporal condition of the physical material universe.

Since you’ve ignored it, yet again, I will post it yet again.

The Kalam was debunked, the chimp moved on, There is such a thing as “Too much of a good thing.” Besides it’s like shooting hamsters in a drainpipe. There isn’t even any place for this poor sod to run but he keeps going round and round and round and round.

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To All,

Busy week. I haven’t forgotten about you. Will respond when there’s time.

That’s quite alright, take all the time you need. The more the better. :innocent:

@studentfinalpaper

Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity YES or NO?

If you’re claiming it’s yes then please present it.

Do you accept that the KCA you cited in your OP contains several known logical fallacies YES or NO?

How can infinite regress be impossible and illogical as you claim, if a deity has always existed, as you also claim.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for your assumption a deity is “beginning-less”?

When the KCA says in its first premise that everything that begins to exist has a cause. How many of those examples can you demonstrate any objective evidence had a supernatural cause, or that started to exist outside of the temporal condition of the physical material universe.

I am new to this forum and this is my first posting/reply btw.
I have never heard of Kalam before, but here is my first reaction.
Please define “cause”. By “cause” do you mean having a reason for existence, or a purpose, or a goal? I don’t think we CAN know that about the universe. I think “god” of any faith system is a made up fantasy/explanation to relieve the stress of un-knowing. Mankind makes things that have a purpose, a causal use. We also tend to want to explain and define everything, and are uncomfortable with insecurity and chaos, and uncertainty. What evidence suports the claim that the universe has a “cause”?

I question the premise that there has to be a “causeless and beginning-less” reason for the universe to exist. That is a limited human viewpoint based on our ability to understand our own natural world, and how cause and effect work here. That does not necessarily translate to understanding something as vast as the universe(s). This drive to understand and to figure what “causes” everything is the basis for all god myths.

None, but @studentfinalpaper is too dishonest to say so.

As would any rational honest observer, unfortunately @studentfinalpaper is not in this demographic.

Hello CarrieB.There are two very disctinct definitions of “cause”.

  1. a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.
    2)a principle, aim, or movement that, because of a deep commitment, one is prepared to defend or advocate.

So which one is the topic?

Mankind has always asked questions, the biggest one “where did we come from”? Science offers the best explanation based on the current data and understanding, while religion is made up stuff with nothing to back it up. I can accept when one states they believe based on pure faith. But I do challenge when they attempt to explain this known universe with arguments or biblical passages.

More fucking bullshit from studentfinalpaper

He has just been sitting back waiting for some atheist to make a silly response,
@CarrieB!
Your objections have nothing at all to do with the premise of the argument. The Kalam gets you noplace near a

Premise one asserts that “Everything that began to exist has a cause.”
Premise two: “The universe began to exist.”

  1. Premise one appears logical within our current universal reference; however, physics as we know it breaks down at Planck Time… Asserting anything beyond the singularity to which our physics has currently take us is BULLSHIT. The attributes of the cosmose, that into which our universe appears to be expanding and beyond, is completely unknown to us and beyond Planck Time.

  2. The universe began to exist from what? It had an origin in that it began to expand, Talking about “before time” or “before space” is completely senseless. There is no time or space if there is no time or space, so what in the fuck is the OP referencing. Please demonstrate this timeless, space-less existence. The position is irrational and childish,

  3. The conclusion: “The Universe began to exist” is agreed upon by many who study the subject, at the same time there are emerging theories that attempt to expand the Big Bang theory. Science begins at the Big Bang - (At that point which the universe began to expand.) Nothing empirically demonstrable has been yet asserted about the universe prior to Planck Time.

The OP is a dishonest troll who ignores facts and continues repeating himself over and over as he waits for atheists who do not understand the Kalam so he can convince himself that his inane bullshit holds water. It does not!

He (@studentshitpaper) can hold his breath. He wants some “agreement” to HIS idea :bulb: lol

Ignores anything that has refuted or explained it in full context.

This one has the makings of a Pharisee! Lol

@studentfinalpaper

Can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity YES or NO?

If you’re claiming it’s yes then please present it.

Do you accept that the KCA you cited in your OP contains several known logical fallacies YES or NO?

How can infinite regress be impossible and illogical as you claim, if a deity has always existed, as you also claim.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for your assumption a deity is “beginning-less”?

When the KCA says in its first premise that everything that begins to exist has a cause. How many of those examples can you demonstrate any objective evidence had a supernatural cause, or that started to exist outside of the temporal condition of the physical material universe.

And it’s Kalam cosmological argument, with a K not a c, it speaks volumes that you don’t even know the name of the argument you’re using.

Hi Carrie, welcome from sunny South Australia.

I think you’re off to great start. Hope you enjoy your time here.

You can always try admitting that your “kalam/cosmological” argument has been comprehensively demolished from its first premise.

Then you can try and find any reference to “CCA” that is not pulled ex recto. “CCA” has no basis in logic or fact, and is just an argumentation from your fevered imagination.

Welcome Carrie, this tyro [studentfinalpaper] is managing the trifecta of tiresome and ignorant.

Be warned “vmware” takes you to some IT information site. Obvious bid for self promotion. Not relevant nor welcome to this site.
I leave it to our moderator.

Hey Ya’ll!

I’m so sorry for my absence! I’ll return to this thread and all of your statements and questions; might not be for a while though. I appreciate you guys and your patience and honest engagement on these topics!

No Carrie. Cause is not the same thing as Purpose. Cause alludes to the fact that “Everything is created.” Of course, then the theist is going to try and flip the table with a “Special Pleading Fallacy” and assert that their God is Uncreated and Eternal.

The “Special Purpose.” argument is another animal all together. It generally goes with the “Argument from Morality.” “Well if you don’t have a purpose why are you hear.” The theists don’t realize they have been force fed their purpose from birth and have been so brainwashed they really never made a choice. They believe in their purpose the same way I opt to believe in any purpose I have. However; My purposes are actually taking me places .

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