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One aspect of concern to me is restaurants. Under a free market model, if the food is questionable, customers stop coming. But if someone falls sick from food poisoning, or in the worst case scenario, a child dies from food poisoning, a lawsuit or just boycotting will never recover the damages done. That is why, in this scenario, the government needs to have roving inspectors to ensure public safety, so that people and children are not the test objects.
Yes, almost every government has too many people and agencies and they interfere too much. But we must be judicious in what they should do, and where they need to keep their noses out of.
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Then how do you explain all of the prohibitions on smoking in most public places that have been instituted in recent years, despite all of the lobbying against these measures by the tobacco lobby?
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Tobacco industry. Multi-BILLION dollar corporation. (Side note: Not only do they make and sell their addictive poison products, but they ALSO make and sell the drugs to help you QUIT using their poisonous products. Fucking GENIUS!) Anyway, do you HONESTLY believe our government officials give two shits about any of us? The government is concerned about only TWO things: Money and Power. And by putting such restrictions and regulations and fees on the tobacco companies, along with taxing their products OUT THE ASS, the government is giggling its nuts off raking in untold BILLIONS of dollars BECAUSE OF the tobacco industry. I dare say our government would actually be PISSED if more people stopped smoking. So, to repeat, politicians and government officials DO NOT GIVE a flying fuck about our “safety and health.” We are nothing more than a bunch of expendable cash cows grazing in their pastures.
Unfortunately I will disagree somewhat. I’m certain you don’t believe in absolutes. So I can’t say all of them don’t give a flying fuck. There are some who truly do, unfortunately I would agree most don’t though.
Having done some serious drugs, and having friends who have overdosed, there are local PA politicians and government figures who vehemently have gone after companies like Perdue pharma and other horrible peddlers of legal drugs that hooked a lot of my generation, a lot. (Yes I know, I’m sure they have skeletons in all their closets on other issues)
How do we get more politicians to give a fuck? I have no good solutions. I believe creating LOCAL legislation that calls for all politicians to declare who is funding them, and with how much money. Open books, you want trust, then show us records on ALL of your accounts. Choosing to be a “public” servant should mean you give up all rights to financial privacy. Then taking local law and shoving it up the chain. My opinion.
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Food? Guys we are muddying the waters. Employees pay? None of this has anything at all to do with cigarette smoke in the air. I don’t care if the restaurant is serving sawdust. That is not what we are talking about. If they have not paid their employees in a year. That is not the issue at hand. We are discussing whether you can enter the place and breath the air. I can leave the rest of that stuff to Gordan Ramsey. This is obviously a non-sequitur hour. I agree with David, we need health inspectors. I am well aware of what goes on in some restaurants; having worked in them from the time I was 13 until around the age of 30. (In case you do a background check on me and you hear me talking about 30 years of counseling experience, running DUI, Drug Programs, Family Counseling, A runaway Shelter, Group homes, Teacher Education, and the rest. Bartending was done concurrently with my daytime jobs. I worked at a community agency that did government bidding for various contracts. I bid on those contracts and then I ran them. I did counseling in Orange County, CA. And I Bartended, (After I became licensed, to avoid a conflict of interest and running into clients, in LA, California.) I think, I chime in a lot and say, I did this, I did that. I ran away from home when I was 16. I really did do a whole lot of shit. Restaurant work and Bartending really helped to save me from a life on the streets. I know of no other way to make such good money for a student. Yes, I bartended to pay my way through University as well. While in university, First, year of the MA program, I also Bartended, for 30 hours a week. Did a 20 hour a week internship. And went full-time to school.) I’m just saying, I don’t want my comments to sound really outlandish. I actually have done this shit. When things got tough in school, I always thought I could go into restaurant management. (They hire anyone.) I worked for WR Grace Corporation for at least 10 to 12 years.
So how about the point that smoking is a want and not a need. There is no necessity to smoke, other than personal recreational use.
Smokers are some of the number one thieves stealing company time in most work places. I detest working with smokers, consistently they abuse and stretch company policy to scratch their itch.
Hygiene wise it’s offensive working next to a smoker, they always smell of cigarettes which constantly bothers my sinuses. It’s lovely having a stuffy nose every day while trying to machine something within .001”
You want to smoke in your home or car have at it. I disagree with allowing smoking in businesses or even on business property. Why is it my job as maintenance to clean up your trash because your a lazy ignorant degenerate that flicks your butts into the mulch beds.
If you can’t be responsible you should absolutely get your privileges taken away. When your lack of self control affects my ability to do my job efficiently, I think it’s time to say no more. Yes this is personally biased and yes not all smokers fall into the same demographic.
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Yeah I am not sure who or what you are responding to here but if it was me then I think you missed my sarcasm and/or my point.
I find it fascinating that allowing your patrons to commit slow suicide might actually make your business more profitable. In no way do I necessarily think they are “doing the right thing”.
I don’t disagree with any of that. Why does the company hire smokers? It’s their company. (Are you getting this yet?) It is up to ‘US,’ not the government. Don’t hire smokers. Don’t allow smoking in the building. Allowing it causes insurance rates to go up. Why would any business allow smoking?
It’s up to people… NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
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Because you continue to show up every day.
I totally agree with you that there may actually be a few folks in government/politics who genuinely DO care to some degree. But they are the RARE exceptions, meaning they are VASTLY outnumbered to such a degree to where their efforts to do good are insignificant AT BEST. If they don’t “play the game”, they do not reach the levels or get the support needed to make a positive difference.
Yes, like you, I detest being around cigarette smoke. Especially in a work environment. And I ABSOLUTELY agree that smokers cost businesses untold losses in time due to “smoke breaks”. Meanwhile, those who do not smoke typically end up taking up the slack on that, because there is no way a non-smoker could get away with 15-20 minute breaks every hour or so. (But I digress…) So, again, I actually love the fact there is no smoking allowed in most restaurants and work places. But I STILL believe those policies should be left up to the private business owners, NOT the government.
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Not to mention the billions of dollars the tobacco industry spend targeting younger and younger “consumers” ( addicts) and incentivizing retailers and filmmakers to normalise and encourage tobacco use. 8/10 doctors prefer? remember that.?? Remeber when the tobacco industry published that report from the 1950’s about the medical hazards of smoking? No? I wonder why…perhaps because it wasn’t revealed until the late 80’s?
Of course business can be trusted…oh yes blacks and Irish and gays and chinese upset their clients…easy ban them… yes, business has very right to conduct itself as it sees fit. They can all be trusted.
Child porn anyone? Free with every burger! No blacks, chinese or non weed smokers need apply.
Sure public opinion stops em dead in their tracks. We see it every day.
Unbridles capitakllism coupled with childish libertarians will spell social disaster.
I might point out that the “defenders” of this “freedom” nonsense are all US centric…which points to something very awry in their country
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No one said a thing about not allowing tobacco industries not to advertise on TV or limiting their distribution or taxing them. You guys are way off on another tangent once again.
We are speaking of government intrusion in the personal lives of citizens. Something they can put you in handcuffs for, throw you in the back of a police car for, fine you for, and then line their own pockets with the cash. The issue is Government Intervention in the Personal Lives of Citizens. Tobacco companies have the right to advertise just as street preachers have the right to peddle their wares. It is the nature of the beast and part of living in a free country.
Do you folks have any idea at all how over-policed American society is, and how absolutely useless the police departments are? Policing diverts billions of dollars from schools, health care, and other vital programs that need more funding to strengthen our communities and support shared well-being. In addition, Departments suck in money from the public in the form of fines, these fines go directly to departments so they can hire more police to write more traffic tickets and get more fines. Police do not solve crimes. " Only about half of the violent crimes and a third of the property crimes that occur in the United States each year are reported to the police. And most of the crimes that are reported don’t result in the arrest, charging, and prosecution of a suspect, according to government statistics." IT COSTS THE GOVERNMENT TOO MUCH TIME AND MONEY TO SOLVE CRIMES. CRIMINALS ARE EXPENSIVE… YOU — ARE — PROFIT. It costs police nothing at all to sit on a corner and write tickets all day. THEY MAKE MONEY. It costs them nothing at all to spot a smoker and write a ticket, THEY MAKE MONEY. It costs them nothing at all to spot a kid on a bike without reflectors or a helmet and write him a ticket, THEY MAKE MONEY. Police departments are all about MAKING MONEY for the city. They are not about protecting you or your rights. The more laws you give them to enforce the more money they make and the more restrictions they place on you and the more crime goes unsolved because THEY DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT CRIME. UNLESS OF COURSE, IT HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THEIR OWN OFFICERS INVOLVED.
Only 13% of burglaries, 13% of motor vehicle thefts and 22% of larcenies and thefts were cleared in 2015. By comparison, police cleared 29% of robberies, 38% of rapes and 54% of aggravated assaults in 2015. THESE ARE SHIT STATISTICS! IT PAYS TO BE A CRIMINAL! HOW MANY TICKETS DO YOU THINK THEY WROTE AND HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU THINK THEY BROUGHT IN?
Well if you think it is “our country “ any more then you are naive. That ship sailed with capitalism at the helm a long time ago.
We still have choices here. Well, some choices that is. Unless you are female. Or poor. Or of a particular minority. Or old. Or…
Truth be told, much of what you mentioned has changed due to public pressure. When that public pressure translated into lost profits, changes were forthcoming.
Umm, I think the topic WAS tobacco. The topic was hijacked by a libertarian rant or two and a whole diatribe hating on a particular country’s corporatised police force.
Tobacco is a national health issue. Nothing else.
I can sympathise with that attitude of anti cop having been a victim myself of a particularly venal County? Town? Sheriff who took exception (on my first visit to the States ) as I was passing through some crossroads to nowhere in Georgia in my nice brand new (rented Camaro on Florida plates) car and when stopped, my hilarity at his metallic purple Police Cruiser…never had seen the like in Europe or Australia.
Saw that he had bagged a pair of foreign tourists , directed us to an off highway Motel (owned by a relative I guess) and booked me for everything except under age marriage and incest, both, I gathered, quite legal in that neck of the woods.
It was plain that we paid the “fines” or we would go in front of a “judge” the next day and likely spend some time in a County Jail while they rifled our bags, and no amount of protestations would help.
Yes we paid, and as we drove out the next morning, we saw the same “Officer” stopping a California plated RV with a young family aboard…no doubt to get the same treatment.
That is the PENALTY for free market corporatization. The “Free Market” truly in operation. ‘Corruption’ at all levels in all corporations, I put quotation around corruption, because that is what we consider that behaviour in Aus and Europe…but in the US, it is merely an extension of the Free Market, with profits maximised for the benefits of the corporate holders. That those corporations are towns, Fire Departments, Health Inspectorates and Police in the U.S , if your complaints are true Cog, is the problem. It needs urgent reform…and that starts at the ballot box and a different attitude.
That is why there is government regulation in all civilised democratic countries. That is why businesses are regulated every where. That is why Corporate America loathe and hate the regulated pharmacy markets in Canada, Australia and the EU.
Your problem is not lack of freedom it is your inability to recognise that absolute capitalism and “free markets” ( that is an oxymoron) corrupts absolutely.
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Holy fucking Christ… Uh, what part of “Our government here is an absolute corrupt criminal organization from the very tip-top on down,” are you NOT understanding? Jeeeeeee-zus!
As I have said before, I do not live in Canada, nor Australia, nor in any European country. As such, I know next to ZERO about the governments, or the laws, or the cultures, or the social norms in any of those places. Therefore, I would never presume to tell a LIFETIME citizen of any of those places what they do or don’t know about THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
I was born and raised HERE in the United States. I spent twenty years patrolling the streets in a large city in some of THE WORST neighborhoods in my entire state. I have literally stepped over the dead and broken bodies of friends and co-workers in the course of my career. I have literally sacrificed blood, sweat, tears, and time/holidays away from my family and friends to fulfill my sworn duties. And then there were my seventeen years in the Army Guard where I was deployed three times to combat zones in service to MY country. Lost blood, sweat, tears, and friends over there, too. As a part of my military service, I took a solemn OATH to ALWAYS serve and protect my country, our Constitution, and my fellow citizens. I STILL to this day consider myself obligated to that oath.
Point being, I have SEEN “behind the scenes” with my own two eyes exactly how my government works, and I do not , nor will I ever, trust any of those motherfuckers any further than I can throw my house. Therefore, YES, we want them to keep their greedy power-hungry corporation-bought fucking fingers out of our goddamn personal/private business. So if you like having your government telling you every single thing you can and can’t do, then have a ball. No skin off my nose. But the way I was raised, along with a vast majority of my countrymen (and women), that is not how we roll here. The elected politicians and other government officials are suppose to be PUBLIC SERVANTS. They are NOT rulers. But somewhere along the way they forgot that.
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YES. The same place a smoking ban starts. Stop giving government power. Cities all over America have begun defunding police departments. This is the best idea we have had in decades.
I also love the fact that people are out on the roads videotaping cops and catching them in the act. The police force in entire cities have been shut down. But it is just beginning. Pandemic stress, massive inflation, economic stress, these are hard times and they look to be getting worse.
No arguments here.
Unfortunately I do understand it…understand it all too well. But that seems to be a very American problem, it could have been ours as well but we got rid of those that wanted to emulate the worst of the U.S at our last election. Fucked 'em right up.
There is a solution…vote, be active, talk to your neighbours. talk to anyone. vote for the candidate that does not allow those things you say you loathe.
Vote at every opportunity, Local, County, State, Federal. That is how we did it. We built a difference. Now we still have the old two parties the pro cronyist capital party is decimated, the Old Labor party is a shadow of its former self the “Teals” neither Red nor Blue, are holding the balance of power…the old parties are riven with shock, coming to grips with an elecrtorate that voted (in numbers) to say “fuck you”.
Do not care where you are from, if you have the right to vote you can have the power…but you gotta WORK at it.
it is IN YOUR HANDS, Don’t come fucking whining on this forum if you cant sort your own shit out…isn’t that what you you tell any random who comes here without a clue, how to sort their own thought processes out?
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Fuck right off…for Public Health issues you need a body with the power to act otherwise you are back to the days of cholera, diptheria, Polio (back I see in New York) Scarlet Fever, TB, you name it…Typhoid Mary anyone?
That is an essential FUNCTION of government. Get fucking real.
By all means get on your John Wayne horses and complain, but those “guvmint regulashuns” kept you dim fuckers alive even though you want to ride into town with your six shooters and see them all off, maybe organise a lynching eh?
Or just get you local businesses to dig them sewers…oh is there a profit? then they probably will not…think about it.
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I wish you could can that shit and give people a whiff of it.