Morality is both Objective and Relative, HOW?

There are people who are with the view that morality is both Objective and Relative. Can you give an example of such a situation? An example which makes it clear.

watch the guy here explalnining HERE

1 Like

Please give an example of an act that is objectively moral or immoral, as I have never seen anyone able to support the claim morality is objectively moral without offering a subjective belief to base it on.

1 Like

I tried to think of/create an example; but I eventually realized I don’t really understand what “Relative” means in this context. For example:

This morality is supposed to be Relative with respect to ________? I can’t tell.

like the popular atheist Tom Jump is also an objectivist, I failed to understand his explanation on this though. It went over my head as well.

U can watch the video for clarification, I didnt get it

I never watched it to be honest, if there is an example of an objectively moral act then someone can present it and I’ll give it due diligence, but in my experience they always rest on subjective belief.

Yes. Morality is subjective in the sense of a choice to be moral. (consciously or unconsciously) There is debate over whether a choice can be conscious.* Once a person makes the choice to be moral, there objective paths he or she take. Each path has the means of measuring its own sense of morality. A belief in God (Pick your Religion) is one path. Not all religions adopt the same moral standards, but they all do have objective moral criteria for the believers to adhere to. Humanism is a big movement for many non-religious who seek a moral path to follow. Once the choice has been made, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Shinto, Hindu, Jain, humanist, morality is objective. A person can adopt any kind of philosophy to guide his or her moral path, I once believed Bushido was one of the better paths. Once you embrace the realm of philosophy (the subjective part), your actions can be objectively evaluated by comparing them to the moral standards of the belief system you have chosen.

I personally have no code of ethics or moral basis for my actions. I am not affiliated with any organizations or any organization’s ideas of morality. Still, I live in a culture. The moral behavior of the culture is very clear to me. Unlike you. I live in a shame culture. (Yes, I made the assumption that you live in the West and therefore a ‘blame’ culture.’) While some of the goals of moral behavior are the same, don’t lie, steal, cheat, kill, etc… The definitions of these things are very subjective when seen from outside the culture. I have very different moral expectations placed on me while living in Asia than I would have in the USA.

So, while the morality within which I reside, is subjective with regard to the view of an outsider, the expectations are very real, and therefore objective, for my life within the culture.

2 Likes

Well this guy is all over the map on what “relative” means in just the first 3 minutes of the video. From the usage it seems it is a label that can be applied to anything you want (making it totally useless in the process).

I suggest that is the source of the confusion (this playing fast and loose with the word relative). I’m not try to argue for one meaning over any other; I’m saying if you are allowed to widen and narrow the definitions of the terms you are using—as you use them—then you can reach just about any result that you want.

OK I watched 2 more minutes; this guy seems honest enough; but it is a hot mess.

For example it starts off by sorting moral (systems?) into two buckets: (objective and relative). Then it concludes that morality is the intersection of objective and relative…Which I would have naively expected to be the empty set (that what is objective and what is relative is exclusive). This seems like a rabbit out of the hat to me.

Imagine I asked where is Bob? Alice say Bob is at Joe’s house. Eve says Bob is at Steve’s house. That seems like a contradiction. Of course we can think of special circumstances where it might not be a contradiction. Maybe Joe and Steve are the same person (or maybe Joe is an ax murderer and …). I wish the author had addressed the special circumstance(s) that led to the extremely counterintuitive conclusion.

1 Like

Not just the choice to be moral though, the assertion that anything is immoral or moral will in my experience always rest on a subjective belief. Try it and see, the best we can hope for is a very broad consensus.

Agreed, he’s all over the place. Try this guy, it may just be confirmation bias on my part as he seems to be reflecting my own rationale on this, but I found his arguments far more concise, consistent and accurate.

FYI he tears Sam Harris’s argument appart like it’s made of wt tissue paper. Though it was a weak argument to be fair.

3 Likes