In defense of Anti-Theism

Although I agree with you on all major items, I can not go that extra millimeter and state that no god exists. As I stated, I truly attempt to keep my mind open.

Possible, yes. Probable? Very, very unlikely.

So are you implying that if a religious figure told you that the world is going to end tomorrow because god visited him in a dream and told him so, would you also keep an open mind about that?

Because if you are leaving room to be wrong about god under the guise of open mindedness, then you should also give the same courtesy to anything that has his name on it should you not?

Pssssssttttttt … sizzzzzzle - sizzzzzzzzle …

She’s (?) got your feet to the fire :fire: @David_Killens

Love :heartpulse: it … :wink:

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Lol not a she, a he. I am nonetheless flattered though, the cleverest people I personally know are mostly ladies :hugs:

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Personally, I was a devout Christian for over 40yrs. After years of research, I now consider myself an anti theist.


I love the picture :rofl:

I find it remarkable that even after being devout for so long you eventually found your way. Good for you :grinning:

There is no need to run about confronting everyone on their bad choices. Do you approach women and tell them they are too fat to wear tights. Do you tell men you see on the street with guts overhanging their belts to go on a fucking diet? Surely we think these thoughts at times. We have loads of thoughts that would be inappropriate to air in public even when other people have no issue doing so.

The anti-theist gets his reputation from the extremists in the group. The same extremists that color atheism and make many moderate people who do not believe in gods want to call themselves “Agnostic” (Which has nothing to do with belief.)

You are pretty new around here. Wait and watch the posts and see what happens when one of these zealot angry anti-theists pops their head up. “All religion should be banned. Christians are stupid. There is nothing useful in the Bible it is a book of lies. etc…” These guys will get called down with facts and logic just as the theists visiting the site get called down.

I am about as anti-theist as a person can be, in my own opinion, and still remain civil. If I am going to assert that a specific God does not exist, I want to know which god I am talking about first. If I am going to condemn the actions of a specific religion, I can do that without including every member of the congregation and yet hold the congregation members complicit for their support and continuing support.

I personally do not think anti-theism to be bad territory or extremist. Provided the disclaimer you made in your first post on this thread.

Religious groups like to use that tactic, to call people that think differently/opposite of them to be extremist.

Fear is a powerful motivator and tool of control over people. Lots of religion has created the atheist boogeyman to keep their own people in line, (as well as other religions as a fear tool.)

I think we should all work towards continued world wide decline to strict adherence of religion that is already well underway in many well educated 1st world populations.

The problem for me anyways is: how do you do that? In all my time discussing religion from all different types of people, I have learned for the vast majority of people, they have to decide for themselves to critically examine their long held beliefs. Telling them they are wrong and to change their entire world view and much of their personal culture is doomed to failure. People “dig in like ticks” when their entire way of being goes under “attack.”

No matter how much fact, logic, reasoning, data, critical inquiry, etc you throw at them, theist quite often do not budge, or even more strongly “dig in.”

This unfortunately makes sense, frequently “brainwashed” since a child to accept this from all their most important peers, including parents. And with incredibly severe consequences, like loss of entire social circle, and all to often worse things like violence against them from their former peers is a real possibility if they manage to free themselves from the brainwashing.

I have yet to see a “solution” to this. Beyond the long term and difficult process of better education that is free of religious indoctrination. The various major religions know this too, so they try very hard to keep their business in the education of our children. (USA recently loss ground to religious(or not) freedom, when increasingly more public tax dollars go to support religious (tax free) schools, where the average taxpayer has no say/freedom in this.

Thats a bad argument because those things do not lead to harm against the innocent.

I personally consider logic and facts sacred so to speak, as Sam Harris said in The End of Faith so trust me, I am just as much on the hunt for logical fallacies as you are so dont worry about me committing them, I consider myself very refined in discourse.

As I pointed out in the disclaimer there is nothing uncivilized about my ideals

Actually, I would approach such a statement as everything, with skepticism, a general knowledge of the sciences, and my own personal experiences.

Obviously this is a personal experience, which carries little weight. My knowledge of the sciences (and history) indicates to me that the probability is exceptionally low. And finally, a mechanism also has to be described. Specifically, how would this world end tomorrow?

Because the leading candidate for the expiration of this little planet is when our sun reaches the end of it’s life, goes supermassive, and consumes us like a piece of popcorn.

That is possible, although I do have multiple checks in place. I am open, but not gullible. But unlike most theists, my open-mindness also allows me to correct any errors. If I was wrong, then I correct that.

In reality, if someone told me they had a dream or something and their god told them the world was going to end, my first questions would all be verification for facts. And if there are no facts, there will be the middle finger, and the comment “then fuck off”.

But you see? Where were the ‘facts’ when people created the god idea? Why do you draw the line with the god idea?

Exactly! You would DEMAND evidence of an empirical kind. So I ask you again. Given that the existence of God has no such evidence, and never has, why are you so reluctant to deny it when you would be so happy to flip off anyone who comes to you with any other baseless claim that is just as devoid of evidence as is the existence of God?

I agree with you @LogicFTW the ‘how’ of such an endeavor is admittedly hopeless. It’s like: “be as anti-theistic as you want, make t-shirts, write books, make YouTube videos if you wish, but there is nothing you can do to bring about the death of religion any faster.”

Should we then consign ourselves to ‘trust the process’ as it were, and wait for religion to dissolve naturally through the entropy it is increasingly bound in?

Because my response is still the same despite the circumstances. Unless proof is provided, a quick “fuck off” follows.

There is a vast difference between listening, and believing. I will listen to almost any wacky story. But to believe it takes a lot more.

But that is not what you have been saying. You said this:

Which imples that you think you could be wrong about god not existing and that means you could be wrong about a flying spaghetti monster not existing, or Russel’s teapot, or zeus…

You see where im going?

I think we can do small things like: improve education and access to education for as many people as possible, (for many reasons beyond just the decline of unevidenced faith.) I also try to fight in my own little way to keep religion out of publicly funded schools.

If god can be protected by unfalsifiability, then ANY claim can. Any claim, no matter how ridiculous, has a right to at least be given the small sanctuary of possibility that you are giving god.

I understand. But I hope you understand my message. I will listen to anything, but to believe, it takes a lot of evidence.

There is a vast difference between listening and believing.

Sanctuary is granted only after proof.

Then I guess we have nothing to debate. I too see your point, but I think the problem is you were not there to hear the god idea brought up, none of us were, and if we had been I swear the idea of god would be considered untrue without a doubt because we would have demanded proof and never gotten it. We wouldn’t have even let it go so far that its ‘unfalsifiability’ would even be a thing, as it has become.

I say god does not exist, I dont need to disprove it hold that view because it was asserted without any evidence WHATSOEVER in the first place. I will not argue within the imaginations of others, because in imagination you can justify anything.

In my opinion, yes.

Women, gays, people of all races and colors around the world, the “disabled”, etc have had this responsibility of educating the “public”, taking (in some cases) personal risks, taking institutions to task through the courts and eventually “they/we” have been heard. Ask any within the above groupings and we/they can still share a story of ignorance (willful or not) that would leave you shaking your head.

As a “group” like the above groups none are the same or equal - but societal recognition of them is.

So perhaps you aren’t hired on at a job because you are a known atheist - you decide whether this is a position you’d want to take to “task” OR you may just ignore that you (myself) are the apostate in your community where current believers of your once held faith live.

For myself, there are some legal battles I would take on for the “recognition” of my mom-belief [went to correct this, but you know, fuck my mom…you know what I mean] IF that was preventing me from a service or opportunity that is suppose to be available to everyone.

On a personal level - I don’t give a fuck how anyone views me …I don’t live with them (thank gawd)…

Oh - damn!!! I still feel like the only peach :peach: in amongst the :carrot:’s!!! :wink:

Not many women atheists argue??? Jesus fuckin’Christ- women will pick a fight over the stupidest shit BUT god??? Nooooooo … shaking head