Has Satan Been Given A Fair Chance

My vacuum has been possessed by Satan for years. I can’t even begin to count the mornings I have woken with it lying beside me and my body covered in oil.

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Oh, I absolutely LOVE that show! :smiley: Haven’t watched any episodes in awhile, but the wife and I ended up watching several seasons before circumstances interrupted our weekly “movie night.” The wisecracks and all of the subtle little innuendos/insinuations from Lucifer often had me rolling on the floor laughing. Interesting to note is that I started watching the series only shortly after I finally made my escape from my religious indoctrination. It actually helped me along in my recovery. But had I started watching prior to my escape, I know I would not have enjoyed the show nearly as much as I did. Sure, I probably would have laughed a bit here and there, but I would have been VERY uncomfortable while doing so. Anyway, I found the show to be not only incredibly entertaining, but in its own way it brought up MANY good points in how “The Devil” is incorrectly portrayed and an evil “bad guy” throughout Christian history. Fantastic show, in my opinion.

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Just started season four. I think I’m in love with both Amenadeil and Lucifer! :heart_eyes:

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Richard Dawkins does not understand God, he never has. He think and is taught that God uses demons, God does not. God allows them to act or refrains them, He doesnt work with them. Well technically He does in a way, but not in a way that we could put all the blame of events of God. He has to allow evil to act to promote His goodness.

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Which deity, define it accurately please, and then explain why you think this deity exists outside of your imagination, hopefully with some objective evidence.

That’s nonsense, I can guarantee you Professor dawkins no more believes in demson that he does in any deity. Maybe you should focus on evidencing your own claims, or offer a verbatim quote from Prof RD, and we can debate that.

Two more claim, no evidence, this is getting tedious now. What is it you wanted to debate?

Which deity, why do you think it exists or is even possible, etc etc…

Also the christian deity is traditionally assigne domipotence, so asserting it has to do anything directly contradicts this, again what did you want to debate? You can’t simply preach at people…

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Richard used to be a christian, so yes Richard did believe that God uses demons because its what the bible teaches from a normal perspective. Only those who dive in deeper into the word and see the word as God intended will they see that God does not actually use the demons.

You keep going on about evidence, like i have it in my back pocket. I tell you what first you prove to me you exist. then i will prove to you God exists.

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You never said nor implied it was a belief he had relinquished, you used the current tense, so nice shifting of the goal posts.

So he does not believe in demons anymore than deities, so this gets another so what?

You might as well be telling me what mermaids smell like, for all the sense that entirely unevidenced claim makes.

You keep reeling off unevidenced claims, if you came here unprepared that’s your problem not mine. I don’t find the vacuity of religious faith of any use, nor should any remotely rational or objective person, since it must necessarily involve bias, rather I value objective evidence.

Did I make a claim that I exist? Did I seek you ought to do so?

You came here to an atheist debate forum, you are reeling off unevidenced claims, if you think you can preach here and not be called to evidence your beliefs then this is one more thing you’re very wrong about.

FWIW we know the existence of humans is possible, and if it were in doubt I could produce objective evidence that I exist, passport, birth certificate, blood samples that could be matched to the DNA of my parents etc etc…however my existence is moot, as I have made no such claim. Do you imagine this kind of red herring whataboutism will fool anyone?

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Let me get this straight, by that way of thinking then some clergy has to molest children in order for us to see the goodness of clergy who refrain from raping helpless children? I’m with @Bluedoc , I’m done.

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That is at least the first time he has attempted to remotely define the deity he imagines to be real, we know it cannot be omnipotent, or omniscient, as an omnipotent and omniscient being would not have to do anything,

If God exists, then where does God come from?

If God has always existed, then why not save a step and decide that the Universe has always existed?

Or, if we decide that God’s origin is an unanswerable question, then why not save a step and decide that the origin of the Universe is an unanswerable question?

If God is able to do anything that He wants, then He could promote His goodness without evil and suffering. So, the fact that suffering exists means that God is either not “all loving” or not omnipotent, and if He lacks either or both of these qualities, then He no longer meets the definition of God.

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You’re going to have to prove that Dawkins is or even was a Christian as, to my knowledge, he claims only to be culturally Christian which is a very different thing from being a Christian. For example, I am culturally Catholic but I am not in any real sense a Catholic, I am absolutely atheist.

So… exactly where did Dawkins (in his own words, please) say he was a Christian?

He also does not claim anywhere that I am aware of that any god uses demons… regardless of what he might have been taught (presumably as a child), he does not believe in any gods therefore he can hardly believe that demons do their work or whatever.

If your god was a loving god, then it would not allow evil in any measure.

UK Atheist

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Where do people like you come from? Oh wait, I know, the same environment that my wife surrounds herself with, mythology believing, weak minded followers of a book that is a work of fiction.

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or from a park in the bible belt where he had to hop down from his soap box and dash for cover when the thunder storm rolled in and the heavens opened up and the rain fell in buckets.

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Yikes! Your wife has diametrically opposed views on religion to you?

UK Atheist

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That’s an understatement if there ever was one. She won’t even ride with me in my truck because of the “decorations” that I have adorned upon it.
She still takes my rejection of her beliefs personally a lot of the time, even though it’s never been meant to be a personal attack. I just think everyone, including my kids and grandkids, are being lied to about their “Savior” up in the sky.

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WOW you two must have some heavy duty dinner discussions. It makes me wonder about the music you like. Is her night time prayers said silently or at full volume. Wow good luck and I hope its working for the two of you.

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I can empathize with your situation. My ex wife was like that too. She was a huge religious nut. She had a huge heart for Christianity. Made me watch religious movies like “Gods Not Dead” and everything else. Made me go to church and tried to convert me after we had kids. I’m so glad I’m divorced and don’t have to put up with that shit anymore. This time, I made sure the person I got with was irreligious and doesn’t care about religion at all. It’s nice to come home and not have to see it or hear about it. No more prayer at the table. No more seeing someone pray before bed. Religion, especially Christianity, just makes a toxic environment. It was the same environment I had to tolerate when I lived with my mother. She has a bad reputation around town for being really confrontational about Christian Apologetics, but she’s learned not to debate with me. I’ve picked up a few things from @Sheldon @David_Killens and @Cognostic when it comes to debating with religious fanatics.

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Our 42nd wedding anniversary is coming up next month, we’ve figured out how to make our marriage still function, but we went through some really rough times. Once she (and our kids) finally realized that they weren’t ever going to convert me, we’ve all agreed to disagree.
Our son’s 2 girls are old enough now(they’re 12 and 16) to understand why I never participate in any of their church crap, but our daughter’s kids are younger(8 and 5) and still ask me why I don’t believe in jesus.

My choice of music, and my lifestyle(I’m an old metal head) doesn’t thrill my family, but they know it helps keep me sane with all of crap I have to deal with on a daily basis.
Black metal, to the death.

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Oh, was this recent?

I know for a while you were having issues with them about trying to convert you at the dinner table. My mom recently brought up religion with me and regretted it. I gave her a talking to. Asked me if I was scared of going to hell or if it bothered me why I don’t encourage my kids to take up a Christian lifestyle. I was like…no. I’m an Atheist. I don’t believe in the existence of your god. I hate your religion. It’s toxic. It’s immoral. It causes problems. It suppresses people.

I don’t really understand how your ex wife or your mom could “make” you go to church. All you need to do is just tell them you’re not interested in any of that stuff. By my mid teens, I quit going to catholic school, and did my last 3 years of high school in the public school 1/2 a block from our house. I also quit going to mass every Sunday after that.
I was done with their indoctrination at that point.